Why can't people see that it is stupid to mix at Christmas?

[MagicSummer]

I know that the Government had to relax the rules for the 5-day period because so many people would have broken them anyway, but can people not see that mixing families, travelling and close contact is going to cause another spike in the New Year? It makes me so cross - why can't people just knuckle down and have a quiet Christmas this year without endangering the lives of their older relatives?

Usually pneumonia or something like that. Old age as a secondary cause

Wishing14 Exactly, which makes me wonder why it’s put down as covid, like the examples from super

I am so sick and tired of this shit. Since when has wanting to see their family made someone stupid and selfish. I wonder how many of those declaring others stupid have their close relatives nearby and have been seeing them throughout within the appropriate guidelines?

@TheGreatWave

I am so sick and tired of this shit. Since when has wanting to see their family made someone stupid and selfish. I wonder how many of those declaring others stupid have their close relatives nearby and have been seeing them throughout within the appropriate guidelines?

This. So many sanctimonious twats on here lately.

How about this as a thought...

My DS aged 7 mixes with 29 other households everyday at school. All of those 29 households go about their daily lives, whether they are restricted or not and potentially infect others wittingly or not and that’s acceptable to the Grinch’s?
This Christmas, after first having a break of around 7 days, in which time he won’t really see anyone but his own immediate family, my DS would come with us to to see our wider family at a special time of year when most of the family also have a break from their jobs if lucky and he would then mix with precisely 4 households.

As per September, the cases rise when the kids go back to school and university whether there’s been household mixing at Christmas or not.

@Wishing14

I don’t trust the death rate figures. My gran was one of those 60,000 who apparently died from covid (on the death certificate) but she only had negative tests and was being sent home from hospital the day she died.

My Dad died in April, from Cancer. He tested positive for COVID 10 hours before he died. Although cancer is the primary cause of death, COVID is listed so therefore, he is a statistic.

What makes me cross is people preaching as though they know what is best for other people to do.

You actually do not know what is best for others OP and it is a conceit and arrogance to think that you do.

@Wishing14

They can’t put ‘old age’ on a death certificate ever since the Harold Shipman fiasco. But if there was another Harold Shipman, it’s simple, he’d just put ‘covid’ instead. It annoys me too because the uk look like we are dealing so badly with the pandemic. I truly believe the numbers are far lower

My Mum's read 'the frailty of old age'.

Which was 100% right.

(Since Shipman.)

But, after Shipman, the death (or cremation) certificate had to be signed by 2 people. This was suspended by the March Coronavirus Act, as was the patient being physically examined by a doctor (a video call would suffice), if s/he was confident that the death was down to Covid. Hardly any incentive for busy and stressed doctors to say 'Sounds like Covid'? I know there were managers in Care Homes in March and April who were at huge pains to remain clear of Covid, having a struggle to prevent it being put on a Death Certificate of one of their residents, which would make it appear they had at least one case.

Because older people have opinions. Because some of us haven't seen our parents or our children since last Christmas. Because 'normality' is still a long way away and some of us need a little carrot to go with the stick. I dunno, what do you think?

I truly believe the numbers are far lower

The Christmas bubbles are a very bad idea, but a significant portion of the public are determined to mix anyway so at least this way we avoid having to police it.

There's going to be a lot of sad families in January, I fear.

There's going to be a lot of sad families in January, I fear.

There's been a lot of sad families for most of 2020.

@amicissimma yes I think if the doctor has personally seen a person decline as their doctor they are allowed. But I agree, think the new emergency measures to change death certificates have a lot to do with high death numbers.

Just fuck off. My mum has got an autoimmune condition and we haven't seen her all year. My sister and I are pulling our DC out of school next week so we can isolate beforehand and see her for Christmas. I am not leaving her with just my stepdad.

People's mental health fucking matters.

The only elderly relative left in my family, my mother, died on Saturday just gone. She was 86. She had a massive stroke in August, was left paralysed and in a nursing home where she was allowed 2 visitors per week, for half an hour, with the visitors sitting outside, wearing masks, while she sat inside over 2 metres away.

The night before she died, my brother drove 100 miles to see her at 11.30pm, again for half an hour. He was not 'allowed' to touch her, or remove his mask.

I sincerely hope that all those who are waiting for the vaccines or end of restrictions to see their elderly relatives will get to see them. But my mother went from independent, alert and reasonably healthy to dead in 3 months. And it was not COVID.

COVID is not the only way people die. It is one of many, many ways. Maybe the stupidity is on the part of those who appear to have forgotten that fact.

Shodan I’m so sorry, that’s heartbreaking.

And you are right, not all family members will still be there one this is “over” x

And also - you don't then have to live with the guilt if you pass on the virus and infect/potentially kill a grandparent or vulnerable family member.

Playing devil's advocate here but what if you skipped Christmas with a loved family this year and then between now and next year they died of something else and you missed the chance to have one last Christmas with them?

That's personally what I think of when I see people spouting the "no I won't mix at Christmas because I want my Granny to live to see next Christmas" schpiel.

@Shodan That really is heartbreaking.

The night before she died, my brother drove 100 miles to see her at 11.30pm, again for half an hour. He was not 'allowed' to touch her, or remove his mask.

That is disgusting and inhumane. I am so sorry

@Nicknacky Thank you.

What was especially heart-breaking was watching tears roll down my mother's face, on the last visit I had with her.

I wasn't allowed to wipe them away. I wasn't allowed to hug her. I sat and watched as a relative stranger was allowed to do those things.

Because out elderly relative only has months to live. Yeah there's a slim slim chance she'll see one more Christmas but frankly unlikely, she was happy to stay alone with just the essential caring visits back in March but as time has gone one she's realised this really might last her whole life. So she wants to at least see her grandkids and great grand baby and fuck anyone who makes us feel bad about "killing our granny"

Such a sad post @Shodan, sorry for your loss. I agree with every word you say in your last paragraph.

Shodan I can only imagine how hard that was to see. I was fortunate that I got to be with my mum as she deteriorated and I am so thankful that she passed away before all this madness.

Somehow, you will need to try and rid yourself of those particular memories as it will chew you up as none of that was your fault or choice. You were there and she knew that(I genuinely mean that in a nice way)!

Because people are physically mentally emotionally and financially at breaking point. And as humans and animals when we are struggling we look for our pack. We seem support and human contact- our friends and family. It’s not about Christmas itself if it was any time it would be an opportunity to see and spend time with our family when many of us haven’t been able to do that at all over this period. I haven’t seen my family for 4 months. Even if I didn’t see them over Christmas I will feel the effects of any further restrictions if deaths rise. I have followed all the rules so far and have been in tier 3 + since July. The people I am seeing at Christmas are low risk, I minimise my risk where I can. Perhaps it is selfish but I’ve spent 9 months living a shitty life (as have we all) for the benefit of others.

I haven’t seen my mum since the summer. We want to go and see her for a few days but I’d rather wait at least a week after schools break up and then stay A few days then. The 23rd is too early as dcs are in secondary schools.
It’s so ridiculous.

@supersonicginandtonic

My DPs grandad (89) and grandma (93) died of "COVID", when one was in for a massive stroke and the other terminal cancer. Both included in the figures.

I'm sorry for your losses.

Covid causes massive blood clots and strokes.

Lots of Covid deaths, especially from early on, won't have been recorded as Covid. They'll be down as heart attacks, strokes, or pneumonia.