Why can't people see that it is stupid to mix at Christmas?

[MagicSummer]

I know that the Government had to relax the rules for the 5-day period because so many people would have broken them anyway, but can people not see that mixing families, travelling and close contact is going to cause another spike in the New Year? It makes me so cross - why can't people just knuckle down and have a quiet Christmas this year without endangering the lives of their older relatives?

Because the people I've invited have recently had covid... And may not be around by next Christmas.

Just because you think it's stupid doesn't mean it or we actually are...

@Rosehip10

why don't you enjoy your quiet Christmas OP and stop worrying about what others are doing?

This with bells on.

MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

Just found out today my dad is terminally ill with a few months to live. We live 2 hours away and I’ve only seen him twice since March. I’ve followed the rules all the way through but I am breaking them this weekend or next to leave my tier (Scotland) and go. I’ll also be doing Christmas with them too.

Why did it need to be 5 days? The two bank holidays (25th and 26th) is enough.

Astonishingly, despite 6 months of constant news about CV19, some people still think the 'rules' don't apply to them, they won't catch it, etc etc, or they just don't care. They can't even see that it's not just them risking their own health, but that of everyone else they come into contact with. It's gobsmacking really.

Why can’t other people see that it’s stupid to continue living a half life, hiding away from just one of the million risks of life and whilst doing so, missing out on spending the precious time we are given on this Earth with our loved ones?

Yep - and the very people who will be mixing a Christmas will be the ones going mad in January when we are back in lockdown 😂

Because it's much easier for this crappy government to leave us to argue with each other about nonsensical rules than give us the tests that are now widely available and quickly done, and make sure we are all really safe and can be a lot free to see who we want.

@LoopyGremlin

Just found out today my dad is terminally ill with a few months to live. We live 2 hours away and I’ve only seen him twice since March. I’ve followed the rules all the way through but I am breaking them this weekend or next to leave my tier (Scotland) and go. I’ll also be doing Christmas with them too.

In an ideal world things would be opened up mixing wise for those in exceptional circumstances which if adhered to would have a more minimal rate on new infections. Exceptional circumstances could include severe mental health issues, situations like yours and within the existing guidelines allowing anyone on their own to bubble with another household.

I'd happily stay in for the 5 days to allow for that. Problem is, too many will just do what they want anyway.

Why did it need to be 5 days? .. Possibly for all the NHS staff and other shift workers... So they can visit family when they are off as not everyone has the luxury of Christmas day and boxing day off.

Case numbers will go up in January anyway because the schools and universities will go back. Another lockdown or further tiered restrictions are inevitable for January whether some families choose to see each other or not over Christmas. It’s just that now the government can blame it on us when they impose yet more measures next year.

People are assessing their own risks presumably. Some are happy to take the risk of spreading the virus or catching it, or they don't think there's any risk at all?

@Heyahun

Yep - and the very people who will be mixing a Christmas will be the ones going mad in January when we are back in lockdown 😂

The stupid thing will be just how mad and surprised they are in the second week of January when new lockdowns are announced after the kids go back. Cause and effect just doesn't seem to register with many.

Because they're human beings and have an entirely reasonable desire to see their family and friends?

We won't be seeing anyone outside this household. Our choice. However, I don't begrudge anyone who takes a different view.

@Heyahun

Yep - and the very people who will be mixing a Christmas will be the ones going mad in January when we are back in lockdown 😂

We will be in some kind of lockdown/tiers for a few months after Christmas. I hope there are not many people surprised by this.

There is no point getting stressed about what other people are going to do.

Problem is that people mixing at Christmas will impact many other people unless all the households mixing are self isolating for 2 weeks beforehand as the rates will rise and we will end up in lockdown for longer, impact NHS etc. The nearest nightingale hospital to us is opening again already. So in all fairness it is other people's business.

Therefore, it would be better if the majority keep mixing to the minimum to keep the rates down.

I am so sorry about your dad @LoopyGremlin. No-one would begrudge you seeing family

But for many other people the big family meet up could be delayed for a couple more months, when fingers crossed the vaccine roll out will start.

@Krampusnacht

Because older relatives are people too, they have their own thoughts and many are willing and able to make their own risk assessment.

You do you. Let everyone else decide for themselves.

But they don't live in a vacuum. If they catch it, they may not care, but what about the people they pass it onto, i.e. healthcare workers, etc., and what about the people who aren't getting proper medical care because the NHS is concentrating all resources on Covid?

But it’s not really about the 5 days. If you’re in tier 3 you’re not allowed to meet anyone from other households except outside. Christmas may be the only chance some people have to see their relatives within the rules for months after months of not seeing them.

The chance of someone dying in their 70s of any cause is about 2% per year whereas the chance of them catching covid from a relative and dying of it is much lower. So if you are 70 and don’t want to die without seeing your family again it may well be rational to see them at Christmas particularly as individual circumstances might make it unlikely that their relatives have covid.

I think it’s inhumane and a breach of human rights to prevent people seeing family for periods of months at a time. Not many countries have done this to the extent the UK has and for some countries it would be unconstitutional to do so. I think the courts could well overturn our more draconian rules on this if they have a chance as I believe they did in France.

I actually agree that a short period where everyone mixes at the same time is a bit stupid if the issue is NHS capacity. If we had a rule which allowed limited mixing inside in any circumstances we probably wouldn’t have such a panicked rush for everyone to see each other at Christmas.

For me for example, I haven’t seen my sister for months and she has only met her new nephew a couple of times. We are allowed to see each other at Christmas but not otherwise (distance between us makes it impractical to meet outside). So if we want to follow the rules, we have to see each other over Christmas which will involve her using crowded public transport etc. If we knew that we could see each other outside of the Christmas period I’d probably just see her individually at another time.

@happytoday73

Why did it need to be 5 days? .. Possibly for all the NHS staff and other shift workers... So they can visit family when they are off as not everyone has the luxury of Christmas day and boxing day off.

I wouldn't argue with it if that is the case, but every day out the 5 probably leads to thousands more infections (which then get multiplied). The damage from 5 days will be a lot more than from 2.

Makes no sense to me to stop doing what we are doing just for Xmas. I feel that period in time will be a higher risk.

I agree OP. However we all know the risk involved by now. Most people will be fine and others won’t be so lucky!

@ineedaholidaynow

Problem is that people mixing at Christmas will impact many other people unless all the households mixing are self isolating for 2 weeks beforehand as the rates will rise and we will end up in lockdown for longer, impact NHS etc. The nearest nightingale hospital to us is opening again already. So in all fairness it is other people's business.

Therefore, it would be better if the majority keep mixing to the minimum to keep the rates down.

I am so sorry about your dad @LoopyGremlin. No-one would begrudge you seeing family

But for many other people the big family meet up could be delayed for a couple more months, when fingers crossed the vaccine roll out will start.

Yeah, i've always said if people want to meet up with family they need to either self isolate for 2 weeks first or get a test just before. Obviously anyone who can't isolate should be getting the test. The government needs to be hammering this home.

Instead it'll be all kinds of cross mixing for 5 days and then all down the boozer or to Uncle Dave's for a New Years Eve knees up.

The whole thing has disaster written all over it. Just like encouraging millions to go abroad on holiday in the summer before going back to packed out classrooms with no distancing and University halls in September did.

We'll all pay for this in January and February, but people will complain when more restrictions come in and hospitality closes its doors again.

I really wish I’d ignored the rules. My gran died alone and I’ll always regret it.

OP, stop interfering in other people’s lives (unless you are training to become a Covid Marshall).
More people are dying from suicide than Covid so leave people alone.

Most people will be fine and others won’t be so lucky!

But we're all going to pay for it in January when more restrictions inevitably come in and the hospitals are back on the brink.