Christmas bubble! What a load of shit

[doodledo92]

Christmas bubble.... really! Sorry but what a load of bollocks all this shit is now!!

@lynsey91

We have spent since March social distancing and being told we can't hug anyone and yet for 5 days we don't need to distance and can hug!!

Bloody pathetic. Me and DH will be spending Christmas on our own.

Exactly. Why stop making sensible decisions now? There seems to be some hope for Spring we can go a bit longer and not blow all the good work.

Personally I'm getting sick of being told what I can and can't do now as well

Same here, and I think you are so right that every time they announce a ridiculous arbitrary rule like this, with no logic behind it, it erode public trust and confidence even more.

Personally I think they just know people will do what they want over Christmas anyway and are just introducing this to save face. Plus Boris would love to be the one to 'save' Christmas.

I can't see how Christmas bubbles of 3 households will work - most people in couples won't be happy to sacrifice seeing their own family so that they can see their partner's, and if they have siblings both sets of parents will likely want to see those too. I really can't see people genuinely sticking to this unless it naturally falls into what they were going to do anyway.

@BuntysTwinkle

That's a refreshing thread title!

We are choosing not to activate any Christmas "bubbles", we'd rather prioritize continuing to dodge this crappy virus, however people with elderly/sick relatives probably want to see them. (A bad idea IMO, but what can you say?)

It depends, doesn't if?

It would be fine for me to see mum as I pretty much isolate all the time. I wfh, have no family and I only see friends for the odd walk. Most of my shopping is online.
I'm her bubble.

So, it'd be fine for me to see her really. But I don't want to. I'd never spent Christmas with my parents so don't see why I should start now.

[quote notanothertakeaway]@JacobReesMogadishu

My understanding is -

(1) mixing at Christmas is not safe, hence the warnings from scientists
(2) however, politicians know that if they ask people not to mix AT ALL over Christmas, then plenty of people will ignore that, which normalises rule breaking, and then it becomes a free for all in January
(3) aim is to aim of imposing a limit over Christmas is to encourage people to think of it as a short term measure, which will increase compliance afterwards[/quote]
I think these plans will normalise rule breaking too, though. It's a bad idea to have counter-intuitive laws, and for most people this is very counter-intuitive - the idea that your child's in-laws would be in your bubble even if you never see them seems hard for people to understand. That's why I think either bubbles of two households (which makes it much clear from the off that you have to pick one side or another) or a limit on number of people - which seems to be what other countries, e.g. Spain and Germany, are doing - seems like they would have been better options to me. The issue with this is that it's clear from social media reactions that most people's first reaction is that they can see two households, and so the fact that this is not necessarily the case is a) confusing and b) likely to be widely flouted.

Ridiculous idea.

Certain people would meet anyway but those dithering now will feel they've got the go-ahead. Makes life difficult for those ( weak-willed) with families who are encouraging them to meet because 'its allowed' too.
Currently thinking how to let mil down gently without causing a war when she thinks she's now got the go-ahead to demand have the DC over at Christmas.
No doubt I'll be the evil dil.

We will be keeping to ourselves.

It's so depressing.

Facing 2021 as possibly even worse than 2020 for lots of people, we the UK crashes out of the EU, the virus rampages and the economy is ever more fucked.

People don’t have to see 2 households over the Christmas period, it’s not the law that you have to, just the law that you don’t see more. I’m sure the Government (and the scientists) are hoping that most people will do the sensible thing and not mix because there is going to be a huge spike after Christmas.

And those talking about Tier 1, isn’t it likely that there will be very few regions in Tier 1 when this lockdown finishes on 2nd December.

People can’t make decisions re risks for themselves as those actions impact on others at work, school, groups etc.

Allowing people to mix is a recipe for disaster. Many were breaking the rules anyway and so more will now thinking if it’s ok at Christmas it’s ok now. Likewise many will still host new year groups regardless.

January is usually miserable anyway for many but add in all the increased cases etc and it’s going to be awful i imagine.

It would have been better to give a national holiday after the vaccine roll out and let people celebrate them in groups rather than now.

@ineedaholidaynow

People don’t have to see 2 households over the Christmas period, it’s not the law that you have to, just the law that you don’t see more. I’m sure the Government (and the scientists) are hoping that most people will do the sensible thing and not mix because there is going to be a huge spike after Christmas.

And those talking about Tier 1, isn’t it likely that there will be very few regions in Tier 1 when this lockdown finishes on 2nd December.

I can imagine some stressing about finding another 2 households to mix with because they can.

@notanothertakeaway - spot on.

We know the police can’t enforce household mixing, the whole thing relies on social contract. If that breaks down and enough people says “sod it, the rules are stupid and I’ll ignore them” then a further group of people think “look at these other people who aren’t following the rules, why should bother if they aren’t?” and so it goes on. This is already happening of course and the social contract is being steadily chipped away but attempts to impose a full lockdown at Christmas would have taken a wrecking ball to it.

They’re clearly trying to hit a sweet spot of “allowing but discouraging” in which the household mixing won’t be too much greater than would have happened under a “lockdown with rule breaking” scenario but where it will still be possible to have effective measures in Jan.

I agree that some people will break the rules anyway. As they've been told its OK to mix with 2 other households on Xmas eve, they then won't see why it matters if they mix with a different 2 household on xmas day, etc. Or on NYE.

If it had been banned completely I'm sure some would have broken the rules, but maybe by fewer days or households.

It's a political stunt

It's a political stunt Yes, I expected better of Nicola Sturgeon, she was my last hope. Nevermind. Totally shit, lockdowned January and February with school closures it is then. Happy Christmas.

ineedaholidaynow I've got no intention of mixing households over Xmas or at any time soon.

But I have children in two different schools who will, before and after the Xmas holidays,be mixing with lots of people who have mixed with lots of people....

I'm not blaming anyone who does want to meet up with other households btw.

I'm just saying that knowing that any suppression of the spread achieved by our current lock down lite is going to be thrown out of the window in a months time to wreck havoc in the New Year is utterly depressing.

I'm a bit confused about all of this - can you help me figure it out?

My brother and family will definitely want to see my brother's MIL (i.e. brother's wife's mother).

I will definitely want to see our parents.

Does it then follow that my brother cannot see our parents? Because then the 'bubble' will include my brother's family, his MIL, my parents, and my family - even if me and my brother do not see each other?

What if we meet outside? Sticking to the rule of 6? Is the rule of 6 no longer in place over Christmas - meaning that we can't meet people outside our 'bubble' even outside?

I'd be grateful if you could help me figure this out, before I start negotiating with my brother. We are usually very chilled about who sees who over Christmas, but I did not expect the rules to mean that either my brother or me would have to forgo seeing my parents - even for a socially distanced walk/cup of coffee on a park bench!

I don't want to break the rules, because I hear that everyone is saying that they are too lax and might lead to problems - plus I work in a uni so possibly do pose a risk to the people around me. But in some ways they seem to me too strict if I or my brother can't even meet my parents outside! (For context, they are elderly, my dad is caring for my mum, and IMO they need our company and affection. Not hugs etc (though that would be nice!) but company.)

can you help me figure it out?

As soon as the government release the rules, you'll be the first to know.

For now, it's all pointless speculation.

We will meet with my parents but all isolate for 14 days beforehand to make it as safe as possible. I know we are lucky to be able to do this but if we couldn’t we’d have Christmas in our household bubble. Covid isn’t going to suddenly not be infectious just because it’s Christmas. I’m hoping most people will be sensible or there will be a spike in hospitalisations and deaths in the New Year.

VanGoghsDog

Ah - thanks. I had thought that the rules were already released.

This is totally crap for responsible people who might have met their families outside for an hour or two sometime in late Dec/Jan/Feb because now late Dec is a no-go due to the business that will ensue on the road due to TWITMAS and then we will all be locked down in Jan and Feb to pay for this twittery. It only benefit the idiots, but they voted this shitshow into power, so I guess Boris owes them...

@EffOrf

Why are people say 4 households for 4 days, it’s 3 for 5 days, not much hope if people can’t even get the given information right
Because the press have been reporting it for about a week as such. Many people don't bother to wait for the Govt announcements or look at the gov.uk website for the actual information.

The press has a lot to answer for as do any members of the Govt or those associated with it who leak stuff to the press (especially when it is in the discussion stage and not yet finalised and then turns out not to be correct).

I think it would’ve been more sensible to have the two weeks school holidays before Christmas in order for the children to isolate before meeting up with vulnerable relatives.

@badger2005 you’re right it’s a set bubble of three households so if you and your brother were both to see your parents that would be the bubble of three and no one in that bubble can then meet with anyone outside of the bubble. I believe the rule of six will be suspended during the Christmas bubble period.

@badger2005 - correct, you can’t create a linked chain of households like that- anyone who enters a bubble is a part of that bubble and that bubble only, even if they don’t see everyone else in the bubble.

BUT you can still see other people within the relevant tier rules which is likely to mean meeting in public places with social distancing. So I think Boxing Day walks will be the way forward for a lot of people.

@badger2005

VanGoghsDog

Ah - thanks. I had thought that the rules were already released.

They are, I don't know why VanGoghsDog was so snotty about it?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-a-christmas-bubble-with-friends-and-family

@badger2005 @VanGoghsDog

FYI, here are the rules
www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-a-christmas-bubble-with-friends-and-family/making-a-christmas-bubble-with-friends-and-family

It says that you can continue to meet others under the rule for your tier, but it's worth noting that journalists appear to currently think that there will be either no or almost no tier 1 areas next week, and there's not much time for anywhere to be reduced down before Christmas, so I'd be planning for tier 2/3 rules.