Anyone else find this slightly dystopian now ?

[Whitechocolatemarshmallow]

We may be 'allowed' to see families etc. Over Christmas but should be expected to 'pay' for this with subsequent lockdowns, and hugging will be banned.

Now, there's talk of a 'freedom pass' for people who test negative twice a week to allow them to live a more normal life, which they will be able to present should they be stopped and questioned.

What's coming next, having to show proof of vaccination status ?
I'm no conspiracy theorist and i'm fully aware that Covid is real.

Why are we willing to give up our old lives like this ?

No alcohol, no cigarettes, no takeaways of any kind, no dog walks, a curfew from 10- 5 every day, no flights allowed in or out, no coach journeys , no visits to parks, nothing, no one on the streets at all. Not a soul around, it was bloody awful but it worked, because it was hard.

I find this so weird, this idea that things only work if they are 'so hard' even when it doesn't make sense. Kind of scary really.

What’s wrong with ID cards? They have them all over Europe. So easy.

Ownership of petrol and diesel cars is indeed deliberately being made more difficult. That’s not a secret and nor is the purpose - it’s to protect the environment and public health, hardly dystopian

But why now.... I mean as we speak country side, is being built over and destroyed ,hs2 for example, which has been more expensive and more detrimental to the environment than anyone could have imagined... and many protested and continue to protest about it...

But now the government or whatever suddenly care ?

So what is the alternative? Let it rip and kill hundreds of thousands and leave even more with long-term damage? Allow it to overwhelm the health services, as well as threatening the collapse of society as a whole due to the sheer scale of disease?

It's looking very likely that there will be vaccines very soon to get us out of this. I am just thankful that there are such clever people among us who hopefully have made a workable way out of this possible in the near future.

@Pattypan That's quite a lot different then isn't it? I don't think not being allowed entry to specific countries is exactly the same as not being allowed to socialise, attend large events, travel anywhere ever, attend or host a large wedding etc. Which I think is what a lot of people are genuinely fearful of.

I'll be absolutely thrilled if I'm worrying for no reason whatsoever and this time next year everything is back to normal. Time will tell.

1 in 3 people can't afford an electric car presently, including me.
So if these cars are not made affordable by 2030 for all, you're ok with giving up your right to drive potentially ?

@Whatwouldscullydo

Ownership of petrol and diesel cars is indeed deliberately being made more difficult. That’s not a secret and nor is the purpose - it’s to protect the environment and public health, hardly dystopian

But why now.... I mean as we speak country side, is being built over and destroyed ,hs2 for example, which has been more expensive and more detrimental to the environment than anyone could have imagined... and many protested and continue to protest about it...

But now the government or whatever suddenly care ?

Given that covid deaths (plus heart attacks, asthma attacks, crimes, etc) increase on days with high air pollution, you can take a guess as to why it has risen on the list of priorities lately...

People on this thread need to remember Hanlon’s razor: “never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”

There are things in between 'letting it rip across the nation' and having draconian measures in place, it's not one or the other.

@Whitechocolatemarshmallow

1 in 3 people can't afford an electric car presently, including me. So if these cars are not made affordable by 2030 for all, you're ok with giving up your right to drive potentially ?

I imagine they'll be made affordable then since the economy depends of people being able to travel easily.

@Whitechocolatemarshmallow

There are things in between 'letting it rip across the nation' and having draconian measures in place, it's not one or the other.

What balance would you suggest then?

@Pollynextdoor

Yes I hope they bring in proof of vaccination status. You can then opt out of a vaccine, but there will be consequences as in things you might then not be able to do like visiting care homes, travelling abroad on holidays etc

Are you fucking serious!! Now I know we're in deep trouble when brainwashed zombies are starting to quote this chilling nonsense.

Shouldn't it have been a priority decades ago though?

I mean we have been seeing allergies and asthma in children rise for years.

It should never have taken a pandemic to stop laughing at and ridiculing "hippies and vegans " and realise that actually they might have a point..

@MessAllOver

Yes, I agree. The problem is the lack of a clear message. People can no longer plan their lives because there is no real indication of how long this coercive, intrusive level of government control is going to last. Meanwhile, small businesses fold and larger ones lay people off. Neighbours inform on neighbours. People retreat into their homes and immediate families with either an "I'm all right" or a survival mentality. This level of introspection and lack of human contact and interaction is not normal. Yet we are expected to endure it tamely without knowing when we will get our freedoms back. Yes, Covid is a dreadful death and we should be trying to reduce transmission as much as we can. But we also need to understand that lockdown measures are undermining the functioning of society and that is dangerous too.

Great summary!

Not ‘slightly’ dystopian. It’s feeling extremely so to me.

@3littlewords

I don't get this idea thats its suddenly ok to have 5 "days off" over Christmas if its safe to mix households on Christmas day then its safe every other day of the year

It’s not safe at Christmas! Some people will inevitably catch covid and some inevitably die because of mixing over Christmas. But both the govt and a substantial proportion of the population will consider it worth risking for a normal-ish Christmas Day. 🤷‍♀️

Someone introduced me to the concept of a “covid-budget” - if you don’t spend any of your “covid-budget” by quarantining for 2 weeks before Xmas, you can spend it socialising over Xmas with less risk.

"It's starting to get scary. People queuing like mindless zombies for an hour to get into Sainsbury's.
Waiting to be told whether we are allowed to see our own parents or not.
Women having to give birth alone.
Having to leave your personal details to every pub or restaurant you go to."

• yes, it's not a world I want to live in, sadly. I'm going to see how things pan out in other countries in the new year, will be interesting to see if other governments impose such restrictions such as a 'freedom pass' (wtf). I have a feeling that citizens of more progressive countries (I.e Scandinavian countries) will not stand for such measures. I'd even go as far as to say that such measures would be a breach of our human rights and we can absolutely challenge them.

If I find that the majority is willing to follow this bullshit blindly and I'm actually a lone wolf in all this then as they say on dragons den, 'I'm out'. The world as I knew it is gone.

I dont get the point of the vaccine certificates, if it works as a vaccine, then we jab all the people who are high risk, and it stops mattering if the healthy majority have covid or not. Once everyone over 65, works in the NHS or has conditions that make them at risk from covid has had the vaccination, given that for the rest of the population its like a dose of the flu or just a bit of a cough, can't we just at that point ignore it, slowly roll out jabbing any of the rest of the population who wants a vaccination but not bothering too much if not?

There will be a few people who are otherwise healthy who react badly to covid, but as that will be small numbers the NHS can easily cope with, what will be the point of a shiny certificate?

This feels like when you talk about the period after WW2 and the rationing then which was stricter than during the war, it wasn't for the war effort, but to help the government balance the economy by reserving so much for export. It was a level of control that if they had suggested without there having just been a war, theres no way the public would agree. As we are now used to restrictions, people are willing to accept government controls that they wouldn't if they had just been introduced out of the blue this time last year.

@user1471562688, yes I am fucking serious because a vaccine is the only thing to take us out of the pandemic.

I am worried about the brainwashed zombies who follow stupid conspiracy theories they find on the internet than those of us who follow and listen to science.

Surely the whole worth the risk philosophy could apply to any number of things that people find important? Loads of people must have missed out on important family events this year that they could have covid budgeted for?
It's all a fucking nonsense.

I have thought the same for months. Pleased that others are seeing it too now.

I’ve also been feeling this for a long time.

I’m keen to protest but don’t know how to initiate anything of that sort. Not enough people are feeling fed up yet. But it’s building. There will be soon if this continues.

It’s all really very strange and I honestly feel
very worried that we should all be questioning everything much more. More and more people are now and there are great discussion on Talk radio etc. So much is happening that we’re having zero control over, it felt like we used to have a say in our own lives, now we don’t whatsoever.
The thing I find really strange is the vaccination proof and also how it’s been said even after vaccination we’ll still have masks and screens in place..why though?! Why this ‘New normal’ and reset. I honestly am not sure if the so called ‘Conspiracy theorists’ are that far off in some of their points.
The cars thing too? How will that work if we can’t afford an electric car? So many changes coming so quickly, we have to all question it.

Those in power will always instinctively reach for more power

Although the family Christmas thing, isn't that the target market for the Boots rapid expensive test? They couldn't come out and say "its for people considering breaking restrictions who want to have a quick test before popping over to their sisters while mum and dad are there" - but that's what its for.

Id put money on there being big demand on 23rd December for younger single people debating driving home for Christmas with their parents wanting a quick test first, to put mums mind at rest.

[quote Pollynextdoor]@user1471562688, yes I am fucking serious because a vaccine is the only thing to take us out of the pandemic.

I am worried about the brainwashed zombies who follow stupid conspiracy theories they find on the internet than those of us who follow and listen to science.[/quote]
Do you have a medical or scientific background? I do and we despair of the nonsensical claptrap from poor people like you. Take a step back and look at the world you are advocating without your brainwashed "fear goggles" on and have a think about what you are saying. You really are to be pitied.

And what conspiracy theory did I quote?