To be weary of the vaccines?

[PunkyPirate]

Will you be getting it?

Will you be allowing your children to get it?

I'm curious to peoples responses as my social media seems to be full of posts from people mocking those who will get the vaccine.

I'm by no means an anti Vaxer. Myself and my children have had all vaccinations and have the flu jab yearly. My only worry is that not enough is known about the long term side effects.

@camelscrossingthedesert how do you know you won't get long covid? Seven people I know have now (ranging from 10 years old to 52) . Two haven't been able to work since March, one since June, and one since July, the 10 year old is off school and has been since March. One has severe lung problems and one severe heart problems (looking like permeant damage and she is only 36 and previously very healthy).

Someone posted a graph stating that about 85 percent of people were happy/would take the vaccine .

So given theres 66 million people in the uk even if 90 percent of those took it up that still leaves alot of people unable to.

We locked down twice over mess people didnt we?

It would seen somewhat strange in a way that we lock down over less peope twice but would return to normal with that many people un protected

@Whatwouldscullydo

The restrictions.

Theres no cure. Vaccinations can't be mandatory becuase like masks and everything else, too many people will have a reason to not be able to, and the government obviously cant just say " right thats it now carry on as you were"

I mean it will take ages for the vaccine to be fully rolled out,
There's 66 million people in the UK
Even if say 85/90 percent of people take the vaccine there's still millions who won't and or cant have it.

The government clearly can't with good conscience say we can return to normal.

But equally we cant keep living under restrictions and periodic lock downs.... how can 66 million people be supported out of employment, they cant even fund schools or healthcare properly with everyone working and paying taxes.

How did you think this will all end?

You're still not making ANY sense.

How about just explaining, as clearly as you're able, hiw YOU think this will end.

Please.

[quote DonnaDonna01]@clarcats I have the flu vaccine to protect family and friends around me who are vulnerable or elderly and may not fair so well if I caught it and then passed it in to them.[/quote]
I don't have the flu vaccine because I don't get flu- I have an excellent immune system thanks and despite working with lots of children full of germs I am fortunate not to catch things from them. If I was ill then I'd obviously stay at home and recover-therefore not infecting anyone!

@clarcats how do you know you don't get Flu ?

Yes, I'll have it as soon as offered but I'm in my 30s and healthy so last in the queue. Might get one sooner as part of a trial (might get a placebo).

I totally judge those who won't (unless for strong medical reasons who are advised by their doctor not to).

[quote frumpety]@clarcats how do you know you don't get Flu ?[/quote]
because I don't get ill! Pretty sure I'd know if I was ill with flu thanks!

Also I am eligible for the flu vaccine because I have asthma, however my asthma presents itself as a cough only, and I've never had an asthma attack. I believe that being offered the vaccine is to protect me from getting flu and therefore getting problems due to my asthma. Having discussed things with my asthma nurse she was happy with my choice not to have flu vaccinations (which by the way aren't always useful as they have to try to predict which kind of flu might be around that winter-and they don't always get that right)

@Whatwouldscullydo

Someone posted a graph stating that about 85 percent of people were happy/would take the vaccine .

So given theres 66 million people in the uk even if 90 percent of those took it up that still leaves alot of people unable to.

We locked down twice over mess people didnt we?

It would seen somewhat strange in a way that we lock down over less peope twice but would return to normal with that many people un protected

At 90 to 95% efficacy you only need about 70% of the population to have the vaccine to achieve herd immunity.

@clarcats I guess you might get ill with the flu, or you might be one of those people who doesn't get any symptoms., some people don't, bit like covid.

I am young (in Covid terms.)

I have no other health conditions that would make me vulnerable to coronavirus.

I am female.

I have probably had it and didn’t even know.

There is no reason for me to have the vaccination. Which makes having it selfish for me, because I am taking it from someone who does need it, and pointless. When you have a vaccination there is a small chance of a bad reaction. I don’t see the point of taking that chance when the vaccine is of no benefit to you.

I'll be having it. I'm a Care Worker so should be a priority. I'm also immuno- compromised and have multiple underlying health conditions. I reckon I'm lucky to have escaped Covid so far. So not a difficult decision

At 90 to 95% efficacy you only need about 70% of the population to have the vaccine to achieve herd immunity

Thing is though many many people were Symptomatic which of course makes it harder to know what kind if junkers and immunity status we are realky dealing with.

I seem to remember threads full of people being called liars and nut jobs for thinking it was earlier than it was , they then discovered and traced back to a man who died in the uk having not been outside the UK back in January.

In the first lock down the level of anti bodies vs numbers if infections wasn't looking too good as far as developing immunity goes. And its also been confirmed that you can catch it more than once.

Plus vaccines aren't 100 percent effective obviously. I was a fully vaccinated child as was my brother. We still both caught German measles and mumps. In fact I caught German measles from my cousin . Also vaccinated.

Don't get me wrong, all for vaccinations my kids have had all theirs as have I, also absolutely pro having the choice, go do what you feel is best your call 100 percent,

Don't think its unreasonable to have questions/concerns given we still aren't entirely sure what we actually even know about covid and the real numbers we are dealing with

[quote frumpety]@clarcats I guess you might get ill with the flu, or you might be one of those people who doesn't get any symptoms., some people don't, bit like covid.[/quote]
no need for me to get flu vaccine every year for something that doesn't make me ill. If it wasn't for my asthma then I wouldn't be considered eligible for it anyway and the reason I am offered it is to protect ME not others. Interestingly the pharmacy who tried to 'sell' me a flu vaccine earlier in the year thought my doctors surgery would be quite insistent on me getting vaccinated this year (once I told the pharmacy that I didn't want the vaccine and that if I did the doctors surgery would be offering it to me for free). My surgery called me to offer to book me in for vaccination, I said no thank you and that was it-no attempts to suggest that I should have it they accepted my decision without any discussion

Were not Symptomatic

Peoples fear of this vaccine only highlights their lack of intelligence or understanding I'm afraid.

No. It demonstrates in my case that the government has lied to us about the numbers and as a result i don't trust anything they say

And I dont have a lack of intelligence thank you very much

@clarcats I absolutely respect your decision not to have any type of medication you choose not to, autonomy and all that. I just wondered about your statement that you never got Flu, because you might not know if you had it, some people don't have symptoms, some people might have mild symptoms and some might be floored by it. Bit like covid.

What's your point? Presumably you are concerned about long term side effects? Why? It's generally accepted that long term side effects from vaccines just aren't a "thing". I genuinely don't understand the concern

You believe that because long-term side-effects from vaccines are very rare, that it's not something we should worry about in the slightest. No reputable scientist would agree with you there. Yes, most would argue that the known Covid-19 risk outweighs the unknown vaccine risk, but they'd still accept that the latter exists, no matter how small. And the less at risk someone is of suffering severely from Covid, the less easy it is to weigh that balance.

kifomadertonasomc usually its 3-4 years so yes you would have slightly longer term knowledge

Thanks. If that's true then it's significantly longer than the current ones. What would be really great would be to see actual evidence on how often side-effects are identified in vaccine candidates beyond the 3-4 month mark. I've had a search but can't find anything much on that.

There aren't really going to be long term effects - that's not how vaccines work

As above, it's a fallacy to assume that because something hasn't happened before, that it won't happen in the future. Also, while there may have been few to no approved vaccines with long-term side effects, presumably have at some point been vaccine candidates that proved unsafe, so at what point did that happen? Three months into phase III trials? Two years in?

There might be very rare side effects that will only be apparent once millions of people have been given it. That would happen with any vaccine, not because this one has been rushed. There is a very small risk of that, but that risk is the same with any vaccine, even those that have been tested for years

Right. So I'm more comfortable getting a vaccine that hundreds of millions of people have taken for decades before me (which is the case for every vaccine I've willingly taken as an adult) than for one that has been tested on 40,000 people, of which 180 or so are known to have actually had the virus, and for which we've only got 3-4 months of data on potential side-effects. That's logical, based on your above assertion.

I have probably had it and didn’t even know

The virus so deadly that most people don’t even know they have it.

How did you think this will all end?

Why don’t you tell us @Whatwouldscullydo, you seem to have insider knowledge....

So given theres 66 million people in the uk even if 90 percent of those took it up that still leaves alot of people unable to.

We locked down twice over mess people didnt we?

It would seen somewhat strange in a way that we lock down over less peope twice but would return to normal with that many people un protected

I take it you mean “less” people, but we actually locked down because the entire population was unprotected - so 66 million of us. I presume you’re talking about deaths - so your logic is entirely flawed. You’re talking in riddles about how the government wants to keep us locked down - what exactly would be their reason for this?

I don't want it for some time yet. Like others have said, they surely can't know whether there are any long term issues.

I'm more wary than ever after reading that Matt Hancock isn't ruling out it being mandatory. There are more severe illnesses which there are vaccines for and as far as I know, none of those are mandatory so why would this one be any different?

No not wary and I will be getting it.

I want to start living again.

@kifomadertonasomc

Right so I think what you're saying is:

1. that there is a possibility that there will be an effect caused by a vaccine candidate that does not become apparent for several years even though this has never happened before and, biologically, there is no real mechanism for it to happen. (Vaccines are different from drugs in this regard - they are generally entirely biological rather than chemical in nature).

2. that, during a global pandemic that has stifled the economies of almost every country in the world (the impact of which will in and of itself lead to significant additional deaths and harm in years to come) and which is killing hundreds of thousands of people, we should sit on vaccines that have been demonstrated during the usual testing regime to be both safe and effective for several years on the off chance that in this instance, there is an adverse reaction that does not reveal itself for several years, even though we know that this is not how reactions to vaccines present themselves.

3. That the vaccine should be rolled out to increasing numbers of other people in order to continue to assess it for safety and these hypothetical side effects that don't present for years before you are prepared to take it so that if there is some such side effect those people are affected but not you.

Does that about cover it?

We will definitely be having it. I haven’t spoken to anyone in real life who wouldn’t

There is no reason for me to have the vaccination. Which makes having it selfish for me, because I am taking it from someone who does need it, and pointless. When you have a vaccination there is a small chance of a bad reaction. I don’t see the point of taking that chance when the vaccine is of no benefit to you.

There will be sufficient vaccine for everyone within 6 months or so. You won’t be taking it from someone else.

The risks from Covid for everyone far outweigh the risks from a vaccine. Nobody knows whether they will be badly affected by Covid, and nobody knows whether they will have a severe reaction to the vaccine, but the latter is vanishingly unlikely in comparison to the former.

So unless there’s a compelling reason why vaccines are particularly unsafe for an individual, the lowest risk route is to vaccinate.