Christmas needs to be cancelled.

[AlternativePerspective]

So the suggestion to make it possible for the world to go and be super spreaders at Christmas is to stay in lockdown until Christmas, then open up for five days, then go back into lockdown for another 25 days (at least), five days for every day we’re out of lockdown.

Are people really that desperate to have a get together they could have at any other time of the year, maybe in the summer when this pandemic is under control, that they’re willing to spend months in lockdown to achieve it? Really?

My personal opinion is that it is our duty as a society to have a low key Christmas regardless of whether they take this ridiculous measure or not.

I understand that for some they want to see family at Christmas, but these ridiculous suggestions have gone too far.

Just cancel Christmas and give us an extra bank holiday next year to make up for it.

@Tararararara

I know two people who have had it twice and far worse the second time.

You must have friends all around the world then as there have only been 5 confirmed cases of people catching it twice in the world.

Reported.

You don't seem familiar with the degree of underreporting that occurs in everything related to health.

Why should we cancel christmas. There’s precious little else to look forward to and most of the things I love about Christmas are cancelled anyway.

My mum lives 500 miles away. By the time christmas comes I’ll not have seen her since last new year and she’s sheilding. However she has become unwell recently with poss bowel cancer - awaiting tests. My sister had cancer 9 years ago luckily she is fine but we’ve had enough of this now. I don’t need TOLD by some random on mumsnet that Christmas is or should be cancelled. I’ll be having Christmas Day in between shifts as a nurse on my ward with my kids but no parents or sister or other family. I think those of us who should stay away from the vulnerable will and anyone who can’t/won’t till take the upmost care. But it’s not anyone’s place to tell us it’s cancelled.
If you ground everyone who will work in the hospital how will I get to work if there is no transportation just because many get 2 weeks off over Christmas seems to make them forget many work it in a variety of jobs to keep the country going whilst they sit on their backsides eating shite

@Lweji

I'm not so sure that there will be that many more reported cases. I'm sure the media would have jumped on any opportunity to report on it. It's not the sort of thing that will be kept quiet is it?

In my friend's words, they don't have time to write about it.

There has been one case reported in the media where I live and that is because they had the test done at the same private laboratory.

They've had time to find nearly 1.5 million cases in the UK alone and very few people have reported having it twice. The media have had plenty of time to report on Covid and right copiously about it every day. I'm pretty sure if there are a lot of people who tested positive twice they would have reported on it. I'm not saying there haven't been any cases but the fact that so few have been reported suggests that most people will be immune for a few months (at least) after catching it.

right write

Most people will be immune for months, even years. There are studies that have shown that most do have a good level of antibodies post-covid.

What I'm saying is that we cannot be certain that anyone who has had covid won't have it again. Even a few months down the line.

You don't seem familiar with the degree of underreporting that occurs in everything related to health.

Underreporting by who? The media are not underreporting with regard Covid. They are very interested in people who have had it twice, especially if it's worse the second time. The government certainly has no reason to not publicise it either.

@Lweji

Most people will be immune for months, even years. There are studies that have shown that most do have a good level of antibodies post-covid.

What I'm saying is that we cannot be certain that anyone who has had covid won't have it again. Even a few months down the line.

Of course we can't be certain. Nothing is certain.

This is getting tiresome.

I'm telling you that I know a doctor who has seen cases, and they are not reporting them.

Governments have huge databases to deal with. They are barely coping with just listing the numbers.

Even covid numbers are underreported because people can stay at home and not even be tested.

As with most diseases, including those that are of mandatory reporting.
Everyone who works in a health related field knows this.

If lockdown (in whatever form it takes after 2 December) is not lifted for Christmas then many people will ignore the guidance/rules anyway.

Regardless of what happens with the number of positive cases in the lead up to, during and post-Christmas the government will do whatever it wants anyway.

The virus will continue to do what viruses do.

@ancientgran

Trains don’t usually run Boxing Day. It isn't a usual year though is it.

If you're aware of a government plan to have all train operators nationwide running a service on Boxing Day, could you please let the companies know with enough notice? Changes to employment terms and conditions don't just get announced on Christmas Eve you know, they have to be negotiated and agreed with the union reps. Otherwise you won't have any staff turn up.

I'm telling you that I know a doctor who has seen cases, and they are not reporting them.

You can’t expect anyone to take your anecdata seriously.

@Lweji

This is getting tiresome.

I'm telling you that I know a doctor who has seen cases, and they are not reporting them.

Governments have huge databases to deal with. They are barely coping with just listing the numbers.

Even covid numbers are underreported because people can stay at home and not even be tested.

As with most diseases, including those that are of mandatory reporting.
Everyone who works in a health related field knows this.

He has seen hospitalised cases twice? Or confirmed positive cases? I'm healthcare professional and I haven't seen anyone who has been confirmed positive twice and neither have my colleagues. There will be a few people obviously as there are with any virus but I think most people will be immune.

Even covid numbers are underreported because people can stay at home and not even be tested.

Obviously cases have been underreported but that doesn't mean that only a tiny fraction are now reported. If 1.5 million was only a small fraction of the total cases most people would have been infected by now.

@AlternativePerspective I completely agree with you. The virus desperately wants us to have a very sociable Christmas. There is no point getting angry with the government, there’s no point in getting angry with the virus - this is down to YOU and ME. I have far more sympathy for the mental health of those who are working in the NHS, those whose families are suffering from Covid and those who can’t access adequate care - then for those who have to sacrifice a ‘hug’ for one Christmas. And for those who say they don’t care if they get the virus - do you expect medical care if you do get it, and how about the people you infect, the people who treat you who put their lives in danger??

She... works at an overwhelmed hospital in a high transmission region.

Take it as you want. I'm just probably just a troll.

The CDC, for example, is investigating this issue, not discounting it.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html

More reinfection cases will be seen in high transmission settings. In lower transmission settings, it will be less frequent.

It is also possible that people who've had covid before won't even report it because they are convinced they can't get it again.
And people with weakened immune systems will be more likely to be susceptible to reinfections.

Cases of reinfection will increase as cases increase and with time. We are still months into the pandemic.

The point is that everyone should still protect themselves, and others, even if you've had covid.

'Even if my mum wanted to spend Christmas with all of us at the same time, I'd kick myself if she got it because of it. I have been spending time with her. I really have no need to spend a whole day over Christmas.And I'm sure she can cope with one Christmas without the whole family together. We all can. Not sure she'd cope so well in a ventilator, though.'

Yes this is how I feel, I dread the thought of Mum or Dad on a rammed medical ward suffering . The best Christmas we can give our family is just to stay apart for a bit longer. Still, so many people on here just cba with it all any longer! As if the restrictions we're enduring were just to punish people 🙄.

Maybe it should look bad on the rule breakers. The government wouldn’t be responsible for individual actions.

I don't disagree.

Not saying they would be responsible if people broke the rules, but, if a large amount of your population ignores you, its really not a good look. So best to get ahead of it..from their POV anyway

@Lweji

She... works at an overwhelmed hospital in a high transmission region.

Take it as you want. I'm just probably just a troll.

The CDC, for example, is investigating this issue, not discounting it.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html

More reinfection cases will be seen in high transmission settings. In lower transmission settings, it will be less frequent.

It is also possible that people who've had covid before won't even report it because they are convinced they can't get it again.
And people with weakened immune systems will be more likely to be susceptible to reinfections.

Cases of reinfection will increase as cases increase and with time. We are still months into the pandemic.

The point is that everyone should still protect themselves, and others, even if you've had covid.

Obviously, it can't be discounted. However even if only one in a hundred reinfections have been reported it still won't amount to many compared with the total number of reported cases. This means it is very likely that most people will be immune for at least a few months. That doesn't mean people should throw caution to the wind but I don't think the evidence suggests that everyone who has at once is just as likely to get it again. The evidence also doesn't suggest that the second time will be worse. The lack of reported reinfections suggests the opposite i.e. that even if people are reinfected the symptoms are mild to the extent that they don't get tested again.

The rule breakers started with one of the cabinet and a senior advisor. Neither of whom were demoted or sacked.

Much more chance of rules being followed if they had been.

@AlternativePerspective

Well there would be ways to limit the spread...

Close the travel networks so people can’t move from area to area and spread the virus accordingly.

Keep the pubs closed so people can’t gather in numbers in public places.

Most of the railways are down between Christmas and new year anyway because of engineering, a few more days won’t make much difference...

And it could be any one of our last Christmas this year. In fact it could be any one of our last day today.

Seriously.

You think its ok to close transport so i cant see my family member who has become very unwell. I'm not goung because its Christmas my sister is staying until the 16th Dec, then i will take over , i can stay til the 27th then my brother will take over.

God, there are some doom mongers on here and also cba people who think they are getting one over on the government. If you have been told to not mix households for your own health and to stop the spread and you choose to ignore this advice for xxx reasons well - on your head be it. Mix with your elderly relatives, if they get infected who are you going to blame? It will be your friend/Nan who could well get the virus. I went from knowing very few people who actually had it to knowing a close friend, my DF, a few work collegues. Not people who thought they had it, about to have it (the worried well and we all know them) but people who have taken a test. Its really taking hold and its clearly not the Black Death but for the older folks is much more dangerous and we all know that now.

Just because you dont think this has been handled well (and it hasnt) doesnt mean that you can ignore the advice. If you collect your Nan from say 100 miles away in your car, have her stay in your house over Xmas and then drive her back that should shed enough of the virus shouldnt it! If this is OK with you, forget about Boris, the government etc you just crack on.

No wonder we keep having lockdowns

IMO, it's a cop out to say the elderly relatives can choose and are adults.

I'm more inclined to think it is flipping scary to think that when I get older I will somehow lose my right to make my own decisions even if I'm fully capable of doing so!

My DM says she will take the risk but honestly she is late 80's and its just something to say. If she gets the virus I will be called upon to sort it all out, visit in hospital, make decisions I shouldnt have to make and all because someone has made a random statement. I dont think she is the only one.

I know NO ONE who has put all this into a legal statement saying that if they need medical treatment and the NHS are over whelmed that they will be at the back of the queue. Its easy to say they will take the risk and find when they are in hospital that actually they do care about getting better quickly

Close the travel networks so people can’t move from area to area and spread the virus accordingly

Yeah, great idea. Except what about people who go to work on the train and don't have the luxury of having a week off?

People are forgetting that this all isn't just about "my relatives are ok with the risk". If we have another massive spike, we will "lockdown" again and working people will end up fucked.

@ChloeCrocodile, exactly. Well said.
We missed Easter at Church. And you are right, Christmas is celebrated by everyone, not just Christians.

I once taught a year 4 class ( 8-9 yr olds) who had penpals in London. ALL of the children were writing about Christmas and what they wanted despite most of the children that my class wrote to were Hindus or Muslims . In fact, non of the children in my class belonged to Christian families either except for one !

So comparing Christmas to special celebrations of other faiths, that have not been celebrated properly because of Covid, does not follow.

What needs to be remembered is that the most important Christian celebration of Easter also could not happen in the normal way either just like Eid, Ramadan etc