Month long lockdown to 'pay' for 5 days over Christmas

[NotAKaren]

PHE have confirmed Sage advice that for every one day of relaxation over Christmas would require 5 days of restrictions afterwards. So for 5 days relaxation, which is rumoured to be what the government have in mind, would mean 25 days of restrictions. Is it really worth it?

no i've not been in a hospital recently - I think the last time i went to a hospital was about ten years ago hen my daughter broke her arm. Is that relevant?

the arguments against lifting restrictions 'for Christmas' are simply the same ones used against lifting restrictions in any circumstances.

@MercyBooth

all for the privilege of seeing MIL at Christmas

THERE it is!

How rude to MILs.

@LadyPenelope68

Absolute utter madness to even consider it. If they do it, then followed by a lockdown to break the cycle, then I hope it’s a full bloody lockdown with all schools closed again. I’m a teacher, why should I risk my health to go back to an environment of no social distancing and not being able to wear a mask after the children I teach have mixed with all and sundry over Christmas.

Wonder if all those if you saying how great it will be would say the same if you thoughts schools would have to close again if you’re allowed Christmas/

On this particular point: the Govt would be highly irresponsible to prioritize popularity over health by allowing 8 days socialising followed by the immediate return to School nationally given what we now know about transmission rates and locations. Businesses need to be open, Schools need to be open. Families can have a small sensible Xmas. If the Govt say: '8 days of free for all' then that is many may justifiably feel is socially acceptable. But it would be highly unwise, imo.

I have just come out of hospital alec I went in very much on board with keeping everything open, and came out worried sick as to how they will ever manage in the peak of the winter.

We live in a low risk - low infection area, and the hospital was overwhelmed with serious life threatening emergencies. There were no beds, nowhere to even sit, and a constant stream of heart attacks and RTAs, tumours. I have never seen anything like it. The staff were exhausted and rushed off their feet. I waited 8 hours just for a bed and was in agony. I can not imagine how they are even coping now.

The little frail ladies looked so vulnerable, the hospital is also full of covid patients, and how they haven't already had multiple outbreaks on the wards I shall never know.

Until you are actually there and can see the problem first hand, it is easy to think numbers are low enough on the ground, and we should all just forget the lockdown and get on with life. It was a hellish few weeks, and one I have no wish to inflict on anyone. I have now totally changed my position, and almost wish I could go to sleep and wake up in spring 2021, this is going to get much worse before it gets better. My sympathy is with the hospital staff and medics. I have no idea how you face that every day.

It is absolutely not worth it to me (in fact, quite the opposite) but I do see that it may be worth it to others, e.g. families where someone who is terminally ill.

@Friendsoftheearth

I have just come out of hospital alec I went in very much on board with keeping everything open, and came out worried sick as to how they will ever manage in the peak of the winter.

We live in a low risk - low infection area, and the hospital was overwhelmed with serious life threatening emergencies. There were no beds, nowhere to even sit, and a constant stream of heart attacks and RTAs, tumours. I have never seen anything like it. The staff were exhausted and rushed off their feet. I waited 8 hours just for a bed and was in agony. I can not imagine how they are even coping now.

The little frail ladies looked so vulnerable, the hospital is also full of covid patients, and how they haven't already had multiple outbreaks on the wards I shall never know.

Until you are actually there and can see the problem first hand, it is easy to think numbers are low enough on the ground, and we should all just forget the lockdown and get on with life. It was a hellish few weeks, and one I have no wish to inflict on anyone. I have now totally changed my position, and almost wish I could go to sleep and wake up in spring 2021, this is going to get much worse before it gets better. My sympathy is with the hospital staff and medics. I have no idea how you face that every day.

This seems to be (as ever, with health related stuff I guess) a bit of a postcode lottery. Our local hospital is really really dead for this time of year. MIL had to go to A+E recently, and was triaged and seen within 20 mins, when usually its about 4 hours at least, and in winter previously waits we have had have been 6 hours plus!

I wonder whats causing the..total polar opposites.

When our local is overwhelmed, they usually send ambulances and stuff to the nearest one, but the nearest is apparently pretty dead also. And we are a high infection area. Mind maybe its mainly the young with it here? Though that would not explain the lack of usual winter bug admissions.

All has me a bit confused really. Some hospitals are heaving it seems, others..empty almost.

My hospital is using ambulances parked outside as beds, and we are in a low covid area. It's only November...

My local hospital is full, has cancelled all non-emergency surgery and clinics to cope with Covid admissions (tier 1 area) BUT A&E is very quiet because, just like during March/April, no-one is attending out of sheer fear (or they're saving their minor ailments for the GP, as they should).

Lifting restrictions over Christmas is to boost the economy....the undertaking and gravedigging economy.

vulva I would not expect your hospital to stay quiet for long, they will be transferring patients over from other hospitals soon, as they are now already doing up and down the country.

All this stupidity over saving christmas is making me feel queasy. Almost like we have a country full of seven year olds. I love christmas, but this year I think we have to put people and hospitals first. Never before has the christmas message been completely lost on this scale. It is clearly no longer important to protect the vulnerable and the elderly, but profits dressed up as protecting 'christmas' . Poor souls. I hope most people don't buy into this utter madness.

@Friendsoftheearth I wholeheartedly agree with you. It makes me feel sick. I understand it is a balance between protecting lives and protecting the economy but surely the short-term gain for the economy over Christmas doesn’t make up for the potential misery in January and February when we will probably face another lockdown and businesses will fail. It’s hard to see who this benefits long term.

apple I have been on board with the gov more or less up to now, but I am worried christmas is being used as a way for Boris to avoid being labelled the ogre that stole Granny's last christmas, and he will do anything to offer up some good news. Rather than the much more sensible approach of imploring families where possible to keep within their households where possible, and only exceptions should be made over 2 days for families to bubble up with others. Those exceptions could be fairly broad, but this idea of everyone out for five days with four households and all the rest is a recipe for disaster one that will take many lives, and take months to reverse.

The burden will be firmly on the NHS come January, after such a difficult year I feel so sorry for those that are ploughing through this on the front line.

Yes and another two months of a lockdown will finish most businesses that are already struggling.

I am sad, and upset about this decision, that to me seems so misguided. Those that want to/need to see others at christmas, should be able to do so on one or two days. The rest of us should be told to enjoy christmas in our homes and make the most of it in a more simple way. Pressure will now be placed on families that would prefer to be careful to throw all caution to the wind, and see others, when they would rather be safe. Those that were sitting on the fence will go with a big christmas. We will all pay next year, but the ones that really pay will be the ones that lose their lives this christmas.

It feels to me like a state sponsored suicide for those that are really vulnerable or old. It is a dreadful decision in my view.

Me too. What I find sad is of course some will be very happy but the brunt of the impact will be picked up elsewhere. With healthcare staff for example. Some families will feel it in increased numbers but it filters out.

Someone said on the other thread the Grim Reaper dressed as Father Christmas, that really resonated with me.

I am often feeling like I am living in a parallel universe! Almost like the 55,000 dead didn't happen, hey and lets go there again and see if we can't get to 100,000 by the end of January! I read the articles in the papers celebrating the saving of christmas and just think WTAF has happened to the thought processes and thinking skills of the journalists writing them. Why is no one talking about the consequences of this.....nope all we get is wall to wall coverage of christmas is back on. My friends that are consultants and medics in the ICU department are absolutely exhausted, and in despair at the prospect of a third wave after christmas, but hey, we can give them at an extra clap at christmas and a pay freeze that should do it.

@Friendsoftheearth It’s a dreadful decision, I agree, and Boris’ way of trying to win some popularity. Terrible. Two households bubbling up for Christmas Day and Boxing Day to support older relatives, fair enough...anything more than that absolutely not.

I would protest about this, I really would.

But we can't protest easily - what can we do? We will just be told we are the christmas grinch and want to 'spoil' christmas for everyone! When nothing could be further from the truth.
I wonder just how many people imagine they will be the lucky ones that everyone will be fine - what is the fuss all about. 30th of December the grandparents come down with a sniffle and nothing to worry about really....Jesus you have to hope that some of them will decide an M&S christmas meal for one is much better this year than the long, drawn out lonely and painful death that is covid. I could not have it on my conscience that is for sure.

The expected announcement for today pushed back to tomorrow. Obviously some trading going on so that the cabinet can win the vote with Tory votes from their massive majority and not have to rely on Labour. Hardly the hallmark of a stable government able to make the best decision it can. It’s going to be another mash up compromise giving us the worst of all worlds ie half hearted, hard to bear restrictions that aren’t effective and end up being disastrous for the economy anyway at the same time as completely eroding any trust in what they have to say. I’m clinically extremely vulnerable and will be seeing my mum who we are in a bubble with, but asking her not to see anyone else no matter what baloney they come out with tomorrow.

Quite right two keep yourself safe, you only have a few weeks until a vaccine with a little luck, you can celebrate in the summer with a christmas BBQ and all the family

I understand the row is about tier 3 restaurants and pubs. I am pretty glad we at least live in a country that can listen to all views, so I am okay with them debating and having it out. It is democracy!

@Friendsoftheearth

vulva I would not expect your hospital to stay quiet for long, they will be transferring patients over from other hospitals soon, as they are now already doing up and down the country.

All this stupidity over saving christmas is making me feel queasy. Almost like we have a country full of seven year olds. I love christmas, but this year I think we have to put people and hospitals first. Never before has the christmas message been completely lost on this scale. It is clearly no longer important to protect the vulnerable and the elderly, but profits dressed up as protecting 'christmas' . Poor souls. I hope most people don't buy into this utter madness.

Well usually we get spillover from other hospitals, but currently threres not even that, and seemingly has not been for months now. Its weird. Obviously 'good', but weird none the less.

All this stupidity over saving christmas is making me feel queasy.

100% agree with this, its just bizarre. I don't know even one person who wants a longer lockdown in order to see family at xcmas. Infact, most who have heard the bubble plan have said they are still staying away from vulnerable family members anyway.

I kind of understand it if you look at it from..well people will ignore the rules if they want to see family. So the government would look weak if the numbers seeing family were quite high. But..I don't think giving people carte blanche to do what they wish is the answer either. But I get that they have to pretend its because they said it was ok, i8nstead of being blatantly ignored by man. My main issue with the bubble thing, is because a LOT of people do what they are told by the government, so will decide that its fine to go and see people, when they would otherwise not have done if it was not 'allowed'. January will be shitty I think.

@Friendsoftheearth I agree with you. They are vascillating between lockdown, some restrictions and actively promoting people getting together and socialising (EOHO). No wonder people have no faith or confidence in it. The boundaries are changing all the time. One could argue that they are being responsive but it is obvious that by opening pubs and shops etc just before Christmas there could well be a third wave in the new year.

I’m sure they are hopeful the introduction of a vaccine will save their skin but how many cases and deaths will there be before that is rolled out (given their track record with other roll outs)? All for the sake of protecting certain businesses during December as if that will ‘save’ them.

They are prolonging the whole thing basically giving people the permission to go to the pubs and shops but then putting them in local lockdowns when they do exactly that and the cases / death rates increase.

It’s a lottery. And people do not care enough about other people to stay at home and reduce the risk.

Yes, for me it is.

It's a shame Boris doesn't accept the vote help from Labour under these extraordinary circumstances. The parties worked together during WW2. They should be prepared to do the same now. Sod the more extreme right wing of his party. Boris should bear in mind that those types might still jump ship to Farage's new party, whether he temporarily appeases them or not.

And people do not care enough about other people to stay at home and reduce the risk.

People have done this, have been restricted in order to help other people, for months now. Eventually people do start to think of themselves, this is surely human nature. When we are 8 months into restrictions, the 'people just dont care about others' wears a little thin, when these same people who apparently dont care about others HAVE been listening to the rules for months.

I mean, we are still following the rules, and also will NOT be mixing with our older family members even if the rules allow it, a mix of us not wanting to be responsible for illness, and the family members saying they prefer us to stay away as vaccine is apparently close anyway. But I cannot really write off people who want to see family members as not caring about others, when they have most likely stayed away from them for nearly a year so far! Goodwill for others does end eventually with most people. I suspect if I did not have vulnerable family members, and family members who work in healthcare, I might be getting fatigued by the restrictions by now tbh. Its all about personal circumstance I think for many.

@VulvaPerson I do agree with you. A lot of people are fatigued. Some don’t care. Some think the virus is nonsense or exaggerated. All this isn’t helped by inconsistent rules and boundaries which change rapidly. It’s hard to take a government seriously when the goalposts move constantly. Yes they are trying to be responsive but to many people it can come across as unclear, confusing, without a clear rationale and therefore unimportant.