Month long lockdown to 'pay' for 5 days over Christmas

[NotAKaren]

PHE have confirmed Sage advice that for every one day of relaxation over Christmas would require 5 days of restrictions afterwards. So for 5 days relaxation, which is rumoured to be what the government have in mind, would mean 25 days of restrictions. Is it really worth it?

@whittingtonmum

People with no children have spent decades...............

a. being told they are entitled to less benefits when unemployed because they dont have kids.
b. being told they are not entitled to decent housing because they dont have kids (ive actually heard people say that its terrible how families are having to live in shipping containers but its ok for single people and those without children)
c. People without kids being told/made to work the shitty shifts over Christmas, e,g, Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, etc, There are threads about it on here going back years.

d. now yet another situation they have to suck up

Im not saying all parents have this attitude The majority dont. But some do so its not surprising there will be some resentment coming from some who feel they are being made to sacrifice income or even their job to enable others children to go to school during this lockdown.

Yes, let’s be honest this is going to carry on until next year and many people at breaking point mentally. Let’s give people something to live for. I hate the idea of people being alone at Christmas at normal times, this year it would be full of lonely people. Quite frankly it’s worth it to me as really they are going to lock us down again anyway in January I reckon, with or without the break at Christmas so may as well make the most of it.
That being said, I wouldn’t be visiting vulnerable grandparents and use common sense with the people you meet with. Maybe just one or two households instead of four.
I think I look at things different as work in school and healthcare so I’ve been working as normal so not much has changed in that respect, however it’s all a case of just work at the moment l, no fun or anything to look forward to, so if they don’t allow Christmas it will be very sad

We’re all in this together” until, well, we’re not

Yep Ol, Piers Morgan wasnt calling for a lockdown pre St Tropez was he? For a lot of us lower down the socio economic scale who dont go abroad or even on holiday in this country. (in fact the only time ive left my home town in the past 13 years was in 2015 for a funeral) Christmas is what we have been looking forward to. As usual higher expectations and sacrificing what little they do have to look forward to is expected of those further down the scale.

Is it worth it? For me, yes. My dad passed away in the summer after a very, very short cancer diagnosis and the last thing I want is a quiet Christmas. It will be hard this year without him and the fact I now have no parents as my mum passed away six years ago. I don’t want Christmas Day just my sister, my two young boys and myself (we’re both single so are in a support bubble) as it will be so obvious our dad is missing 😔 We’re hoping some relatives can come and stay with us. More people means more life in the house, busier, louder, laughs, remembering happy times and making new memories.

No. But more scaremongering. Everyone just needs to be careful.

I think you're right @PrincessNutNuts
It's exactly the same sort of people.

There was a good article yesterday. The Independent, I think. It suggested we remember the true Christmas message this year. Which includes the Christian need to protect the poor and vulnerable, i.e. those most at risk of dying from Covid.

This year, we should spread goodwill (remotely). Instead of a deadly virus.

I think i remember there was a previous post on here someone asked if we are told to lockdown over Christmas lots said would not abide by the ruling. So i am curious, is this a genuine would rather not see family/ mix households/see other family members, so can still live in a tier situation over January.
What about parents/grandparents/aunts/uncles, that live alone that have spent majority of this last year on their own, I have friends in this situation , who are really seriously worried about their mental health missing family and really looking to spend time with family over Christmas?

I'm not sure it's that risky meeting people when assessed on an individual rather than a population level.

For example, my dad is in his early 70s. In my area, approx 1 in 200 have coronavirus. My risk of having it is probably a bit lower than that and could easily be reduced further by being careful before I see my dad. Even within a household there is only a 50% chance of transmission. Let's also assume that at least 20% of people who have covid have symptoms and obviously I wouldn't see my dad if I had symptons. So my chance of passing it on to him is around 1 in 500.

The risk of dying from covid in your seventies is roughly 5% but without preexisting conditions this (very roughly) halves.

So the chance that I would pass on covid and kill my dad is about 1 in 20,000.

That is still a risk which many might not want to take. However, the risk of dying at 70 is roughly 1 in 50 in any year anyway. So if I don't see my dad until he has a vaccination in (say) 3 months time there is a 1 in 200 risk he will die in that time (probably a bit lower as he is in quite good health).

He really wants to see me and his new grandchild. In that context and given the risk I think seeing him is a perfectly rational decision, though I can understand that others might judge the level of risk differently.

Nope

Im going to have the vaccine as soon as it is available to me.

DH doesnt want it. Ive tried to persuade him but there is no shifting his stance. He said he doesnt trust it or the Government because of the way they have behaved
Actions have consequences.

@MercyBooth
Separate from Covid, you're right about the poor treatment of childless people. Then people come on here with threads asking why poorer people have children...it doesn't seem to occur that perhaps the way the childless are treated might have something to do with it.
I hope your DH changes his mind about the vaccine especially if he's vulnerable. It's not the government who suffers if he doesn't have it. I'm confident MPs will make sure that they get themselves a jab (wouldn't be surprised if some hadn't had it already).

Forget the government.
Listen to the scientists and the medical experts.

To quote:

Gabriel Scally, an epidemiologist at Bristol University, and a member of the unofficial Independent Sage group of scientists, was even more blunt: “There is no point in having a very merry Christmas and then burying friends and relations in January and February. We need to think very seriously about Christmas and how we’re going to spend it,” he told ITV.

I just think if we abolished Christmas for the sake of the people, which would make sense and seem the descent thing to do but in reality I don’t think it would make any difference and we’d still be in lockdown after Christmas or the whole country will be in the highest tier level. People won’t stick to the rules. There’s a majority that just do what they want regardless and the rest of us suffer for it. I work in a local shop and from day one I’ve seen people come and go as normal still socialising and only distancing when they’ve go no choice like queuing up. This lockdown has been a shambles compared to the last. More people out and about hardly anyone social distancing and I’ve seen no shop queues or restrictions on how many people allowed in stores which would cut back on the number of people gathering and I rarely see people distancing exept in till queues and things are only barely improving. Things have gone lax since the first lockdown so I really think if we banned Christmas that there wouldn’t really be any or little improvement.

Most people are catching Covid going to school or shopping. Those families catching it from school are then going to spread it to relatives over the Xmas period as there isn’t enough time between end of term and Xmas day to quarantine. As a teacher and parent - we will be having a quiet Xmas this year. We will still make it nice but we won’t be meeting up with other households outside our bubble.

twitter.com/skynews/status/1329501832708755457?s=21

The alarms just gone off and my first conscious thought was:

"If everyone just does Christmas as normal, how many potential super spreader events on the same day is that?

Swiftly followed by:

"Wouldn't the deaths around January 25th be horrific?"

We’ll be in and out of lockdown anyway until we get a vaccine. So imo it would be better to not have one of those periods of lockdown over Christmas - why not choose January instead?

But of course this relies on people being sensible - so eg only meeting one other family for Christmas at home, as opposed to going out to packed bars and restaurants every night for weeks.

Essentially common sense is what is needed to allow people to see loved ones at Christmas, without going overboard

Yes, seen family only twice since Jan, it is totally worth it to be together at Christmas.

@Blueink

Yes, seen family only twice since Jan, it is totally worth it to be together at Christmas.

Worth what? Figures up, people sick, people dying, NHS staff on their knees? It’s utterly selfish to think it’s worth it.

No. Most people can still have a pleasant Christmas without entertaining all the family. There is the telephone, FaceTime etc and promises to make up for missing each other later on. Of course there are exceptions like a bereaved person. Then individual decisions have to be made. Just remember there are also elderly people who do not want to be transported out of their homes and be dependant on someone taking them home if they don’t feel up to all the festivities. I know this as I have heard complaints from them that their well meaning family are insisting on it when they are only too happy with their Christmas dinner and the tv. Also there are others who are actually relieved that they are having a low key Christmas and not subjecting themselves to all the work that goes into entertaining a large number of people. Of course there are disappointments but is that worth a lockdown before and after the event? Also remember that normal gatherings by well meaning family may well lead to contagion of the virus.

We have come to a family decision that we will not be getting together this christmas, we will celebrate separately by household, have a facetime party and have a huge extended summer party next year when the vulnerable in our family have been vaccinated.

We have agonised over the decision, but I think everyone is happy (and relieved) not to have the responsibility. We have one member that has cancer, and two others that are frail and elderly. Fortunately everyone lives with someone else, so no one is alone.

I may wave from the end of the garden in a santas hat and leave some flowers on the doorstep. I am not putting my mother at risk under any circumstance, christmas or no christmas. It will can never be worth it.

@MercyBooth I agree with you.

Im not saying all parents have this attitude The majority dont.

But I thought I'd generalise across, first.

By the way, the support for parents in this country is fairly shocking too and mother's get blamed for pretty much everything.

Why don't we all just kick each other, it saves having too do anything we might not like and might possibly make next year better.

Haven't seen family since last year, for me it's still not worth it.

We have Zoom and able to see each other virtually. We will all meet up at some point in the future and overwhelming the NHS and making the work of NHS staff will never be worth the risk.

There's lots of people thinking the rules dont apply to them now, why would it be any different at christmas or after regardless of any restrictions put in place. I just hope the ones not following the guidelines are not the ones complaining when they get it.