Month long lockdown to 'pay' for 5 days over Christmas

[NotAKaren]

PHE have confirmed Sage advice that for every one day of relaxation over Christmas would require 5 days of restrictions afterwards. So for 5 days relaxation, which is rumoured to be what the government have in mind, would mean 25 days of restrictions. Is it really worth it?

My DH and I both work in A&E so between us we are working Christmas and new year. This is not abnormal for us so we never see family because we can’t fit in the travel over the festive period, we just do it early or late and never had a problem with because well it is a downside to the job. That said it personally irks that the whole country could potentially end up in another lockdown for the sake of a few days. Another month of not seeing family, with our jobs they often clash so the fact that our family lives far away we end up not seeing them for even longer. We haven’t seen them since January. Plus that means more people at risk of losing their jobs if the hospitality sector continues to have to close.

The only reason they are 'allowing it' is so they look like they still have some power.... Because let s face it. Even if they said no, we can't meet up with our family, they know that nearly every person in the UK is going to break this rule and they can't police this whatsoever. Same as new years eve....they can't police it when every person is celebrating. So they have to slack off the rules.

@blueytacky, just a family of 4 and an elderly relative, we live quite far from other relatives and so we are quite isolated as it is anyway.
Great to hear you take precautions, its (the sweeping generalised statement) about others who are less inclined to do so. Having more lockdowns doesn't help anyone.

I don't think most people are obeying all the rules anyway. Just look around you..........

@flumposie That sounds horrendous, I think that when this is all over transmission in schools will be seen as a major failing of how this pandemic was managed. We're in a situation where everything is pretty much shut down in many areas (which I understand) and cases are still not reducing. You're right its a mess.

lucyk1 T
The only reason they are 'allowing it' is so they look like they still have some power.... Because let s face it. Even if they said no, we can't meet up with our family, they know that nearly every person in the UK is going to break this rule and they can't police this whatsoever. Same as new years eve....they can't police it when every person is celebrating. So they have to slack off the rules.

We are not breaking the Xmas rules, I don't want to risk my parents getting ill as in the late 80s. Its a couple of days and most people aren't religious so you can plan for a couple of days of eating and games any time, when (if) safe. So lots of films, chocolate and some alcohol!! Don't know about those on their own though........ we are a houseful, can sort of see why they might want some company

To be honest, to me it seems it doesn't matter what the government say. If people want to see their families at Christmas then they're going to and sod everyone else. I've just totally given up at this point. I feel totally fed up. My family live so far away that even when restrictions were lifted I still couldn't see my family. My children have missed nearly a year of being with their grandparents and I doubt they will be seeing them anytime soon. We've not had the luxury of waving at them from a distance. Its been a rubbish year and I want to see my family again - definitely won't be Christmas. But no, easing restrictions for 5 days at Christmas does not seem worth it to me.

@Hoppinggreen

The other issue is that lifting the restrictions temporarily won’t make it safer. A lot of people haven’t been seeing elderly and vulnerable relatives because as well as not being allowed it’s not safe. My Mum has complained a bit but as I can point to the restrictions I’m not too much of a baddy but if I AM allowed to go I know that both she and the MIL will turn up the pressure and we will have to either upset them by saying no or risk their health.

This isn't meant to be picking on you in particular...

But elderly parents are adults. Why shouldn't they choose their own pleasure/risk assessment? This could mean that some elderly parents may choose not to do things even if rules allow. But to make the decision for them and refuse to see them when the rules allow is not only harsh but patronizing.

Surely the talk of '1 Day of partying = 5 Days of Lockdown' and whether this is acceptable or not misses the key point......How many extra people actually die for each day of partying?

Let's say for the sake of argument that the death rate increases by 5% through January because of all the family gatherings - Not unreasonable as there would be lots of school age kids and uni students mixing very closely with their parents and their elderly grand-parents. Given that the death rate is currently around 600, that's 30 extra deaths......each day!

Perhaps all the people who want to party should get together and discuss which 30 people from their families they are willing to sacrifice each day in January in exchange for a plate of turkey and a few glasses of wine?

Maybe the numbers are a guess, but I think the point is clear.

@Jellytots1what an absurd post!

Great post Jellytots.

Look at it like this, especially if you have older people usually round for Christmas

Would you sooner enjoy their company for a few days or would you prefer they live to see more Christmas’s ?

Choice is simple, stay home this Christmas

Nope.

Whilst it's not great not to see family over Christmas it's (hopefully) a one off.

Surely we can sacrifice ONE Christmas out of many?

Anyone isolated can join a bubble surely?

@Oscarsdaddy What if they are unlikely to see another christmas, its emotional blackmail to say that people like myself who are taking every precaution beforehand are literally going to kill off loved ones by seeing them on christmas day at their request. Again just because it suits you and your family to stay home on christmas days doesn't mean it suits everyone else.

@Theworldisfullofgs

No. Its just Christmas and its just one year.

this is the stance I’m taking, Covid aside 2020 has been a pretty shit year for me, loss of a parent and my MH so I’m quite happy to cancel Christmas this year.

[quote blueytacky]@Jellytots1what an absurd post![/quote]
Could you please elaborate?

The basic scenario I have painted is absolutely what will happen. Additional people will die if they spend extended periods in very close proximity to their extended family over Xmas.

@Jellytots1 Not if people are sensible about it, I will be isolating before seeing my parents and getting tested. I don't care about a big party or pubs.

Also people wil just do what they want anyway and it can't be controlled so lockdown 3 and 4 here we come.

Hell No!.
I think most people have accepted that it will be a quieter Christmas this year. Some will ignore any rules and those who are terminally ill etc need special allowances of course - but like lockdown that can be done.
But the Govt lecturing us about 'paying for Xmas with a longer lockdown' (which we will be in anyway, with schools at least partly shut and chaos re Brexit related food transport issues) and then they will blame it on us 'wanting Christmas' as a cover for their own cock ups - no thanks!

I’d like the ‘no seeing people at Christmas’ AND ‘25 days of lockdown after’ option. Just to be sure I don’t have to see my family.

I really dread seeing my mum... ;-)

But serious head on - absolutely not worth it. The economy is on its knees. We cancelled Eid the day before. This is all wrong.

*her father having stage 4 cancer, she wants to give him a good Christmas

If you have stage four cancer I should think the very last place you want to be is in a warm, packed house with lots of family hugging you! If they do not have long to live anyway, maybe it is a risk worth taking if it is their last christmas, but if they are able to continue on for a few more years, as my BIL did, then it would be absolutely criminal to encourage them to come for christmas knowing how high the risks are. In a terminal situation the decision must be with the patient (and not the family) dying from covid is no walk in the park oneday

I am not sure you meant to be quite so abrasive.

Children take their lead from parents, if we are calm and relaxed about christmas they will be the same, if we become hysterical and dramatic about last christmases and how awful it is all is, of course they will listen to that and be very sad.

There is absolutely no reason why we should put so many lives at risk for one day, how can it ever be worth it?? Three weeks later your much loved grandparents will be carted off to the covid ward never to be seen again. No, this is just insane, and really some people need to get a grip.

The post by jellytots is good a good example of where we are at but these are unprecedented times and there is no easy answer for either individuals or governments.

I think opening it up/ suggesting large indoor gatherings for xmas etc isn't much different to sending all the care home patients home in march, only then it was a rushed decision in an emergency, now they have more time to get it right.
It's a bit like having a 100 planes due to take of on holiday at an airport and a call coming through saying there is a bomb on one of them , do you let the lot take of or cancel 99/100 holidays!

There are as some have mentioned though examples where it does make sence to get together, for example potentially a last xmas, so my view is they should strongly advise against large scale mixing at xmas but allow it for those that want to without any risk of breaking rules/ fines.
Personally I haven't taken huge precautions throughout,but inviting old relatives around for xmas when the vaccine is a few months away seems a very big risk to me, individually and from a government perspective.

I absolutely love christmas Knickerthief1 but I love my mother even more!

Genuine how are you going to feel if you parents DO catch covid and the worst case scenario happens to them? Because lets face it, its going to happen to thousands of families, so why not yours? You seem to think it will be worth it, and I was just wondering how you came to that decision. Do your parents have a say in the matter? Or are you just insisting?

We’ve already planned for a quiet Christmas with no other households. That won’t change just because we are told we can mix. I’d rather spend it that way and not endure a further lockdown if possible.

@byvirtue

We were always going to get Christmas and they were always going to lockdown in January, it’s basic economics and population manipulation.

The majority of the public follow the rules (or make up their own more extreme pious versions, presumably for lack of anything better to do). The small minority will flex the rules to suit their own needs (to various extremes).

Ultimately there is no badge of honour for following all the made up (every 5 minutes) covid rules. Before we know it we will have spent a year living under these draconian regimes. The emotional manipulation of the public has been impressive and the fact people still support locking up healthy well people is a testament to its success.

Yes Christmas will happen, yes they will lockdown in January as has been the plan all along.

Very well said @byvirtue

@PostsAndRuns This kind of suggestion makes me want to blow a fuse. Anyone who works in hospitality has, this year, been comprehensively screwed. Are you seriously suggesting the businesses that have actually managed to stay afloat should be screwed just that little bit further, to make sure they go under?