Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools?

[Covidfears]

I’ve been noticing more articles lately in the mainstream press about the difficulties in schools (which will come as no surprise to most people). There’s also been some research which has basically confirmed that schools are driving infections. So, along with it looking like this lockdown has been a waste of time (due to schools being kept open to continue the spread) and people in power calling for Hull schools to be closed do we think that schools will be closing early for Christmas?

Is there any chance that blended learning or rotas will be coming in after the Christmas holidays?

We are a vulnerable family with children in primary school and the risk that sending them every day with no safety measures poses to our family is causing me huge amounts of stress.

I really really don't want the schools to close but I know they are really struggling to deliver their lessons. I have one twin home, the other at school. On-line keeps losing its connection at home, and the other twin said the teacher was really really struggling today to teach the other half of the class that weren't isolating as well as the ones at home. Some of the teachers then had to don hamzat suits to disinfect one of the classrooms due to two positive cases yesterday. I feel for these teachers, I really do. Kills me to say it cos believe me, the last thing I want is my twelve year olds at home but surely now it is time to allow schools decide the best way forward. Very sad situation.

@Crazyunicornlady

Also, this doesn’t account for the fact that there are a lot more primary and secondary schools than there are colleges and universities. Here for example there is 1 college but 46 schools. If all schools each had an outbreak and so did the college, the schools would look far worse on a chart like this, even though the college could have a larger number of actual cases in its single outbreak than all the schools cumulatively.

I think many people's real problem (one of the many) is that we don't know the actual data. It's fudged. You have a point, but can't prove it. You may be right, maybe not.

@GabsAlot

how would it work though. some kids don't have computers some need to go to work or lose their job. what's the answer

Don't be silly, everyone can just work from home whilst home educating 3 kids all with their own screens . Aren't we all middle class darling??

Schools should never have reopened before Covid had been stamped out: the government should have continued to supply resources and furlough because we've come full circle and this would all have been over a lot quicker.

Whilst it's hard on children not seeing their friends or having normality the alternative is far worse and the only one who think otherwise are the ones who've not been touched by it, therefore they lack the reality and sense of urgency the rest of us have suffered.

I also think some of us need to rethink our lifestyles and community network if we are in a position where we have zero support because this is only the 1st pandemic, it won't be the last so time to move back where you have family and start connecting with neighbours if you have no family/friends.

This situation isn't just about Covid, it's about a lack of infrastructure, the degradation of society as a whole and the disappearance of community.

Teachers should not be expected to provide full lessons simultaneously on and offline. It's not really possible. IF this shit was planned teachers could have planned for more asynchronous activities, more lecture online/practice onsite lessons.
Any parent expecting a teacher to be any good doing this mishmash from the top of their heads, without training is an idiot. Teachers are bending over backwards mostly (the ones in our school try) and it's still mostly crap. No fault of theirs. They have never had to even think about how it should be done.

And most of this could have been prevented by ALL wearing masks ALL the time and maybe skipping bloody spain...
But brits keep saying: who would have thought? Everyone with half a brain cell!!!!!

@herecomesthesun that's a little harsh. I meant the pandemic originally.

For anyone in an area with low infections rates - this area in the south east we have had low infection rates since March and only a month ago the infection rates were 7 in 100,000. Now up to 467 in 100,000 and going up fast. People are dropping like flies here - schools are at breaking point, whole year groups off, teachers off, cancelled lessons for my 16 year old who is home self isolating. There doesn't appear to be much learning going on, teachers are stressed and snappy my younger child tells me. Our hospital is full and this is not sustainable.

Disappearance of community is shocking and CV has highlighted this.
Had mine still been in primary we would have used the bubble to the max. We had strikes, Inset, holidays and illnesses to cover back then, I was SE back then just as I an now. I also have one with Sn who would be sent home for the safety of others with no notice. Same with sending them in and they are well, only to throw up or whatever a couple of hours later. Of course you think of all of this before you start working and if not why not?

THe government do help with childcare - free nursery places, the voucher thing, up to 70% for low income workers. Of course it doesn't help they cut funding. But where is the community when it comes to youth clubs etc facing closure?

I don't have family, they are all dead to me. Friends like me low paid, health issues etc.

But we would have come up with something rather than blaming lack of childcare on schools. The first question would have been Billy who are your friends in your class and contacted their parents to see what we could arrange so we could both work and parent. We would all be in the school bubble.

The government are to blame in the belief that schools = childcare. They did this when schools were closed and the role of teachers was changed from education to care.

I work in a primary school. Our head has been brilliant putting in all sorts of measures to keep everyone safe. It has cost a fortune & as yet we have had zero funding for it. Teachers have worked their socks off teaching & preparing in case of a lockdown. We had zero cases (we were open through lockdown 1 for key staff & vulnerable children). Then last week we had 8 staff & 3 children go down within the space of 3 days. Because of shielding that took out most of the staff, so we’re closed for 2 weeks. My own son is in senior school & they are dropping like flies. The weired thing is senior schools guidelines from government don’t require them to send home as many children as in primary schools so they are staying in, catching it & taking it home.
I think schools in higher affected areas (such as ours) should have closed for at least 2 weeks of the lockdown 2. That would have reduced the chances of transmission locally.

@TheSunIsStillShining

Teachers should not be expected to provide full lessons simultaneously on and offline. It's not really possible. IF this shit was planned teachers could have planned for more asynchronous activities, more lecture online/practice onsite lessons. Any parent expecting a teacher to be any good doing this mishmash from the top of their heads, without training is an idiot. Teachers are bending over backwards mostly (the ones in our school try) and it's still mostly crap. No fault of theirs. They have never had to even think about how it should be done.

And most of this could have been prevented by ALL wearing masks ALL the time and maybe skipping bloody spain...
But brits keep saying: who would have thought? Everyone with half a brain cell!!!!!

My poor DH (teacher straddling 50) nearly had a breakdown trying to do this today for the first time. He hates technology it's not in his skill set. Sleepless night about it last night. Spent two hours practising it last night. Class are behaviorally challenging and trying to manipulate the tech simultaneously was the straw that broke the camel's back. He says he can't do it anymore.

I began homeschooling my children in September specifically for this reason. I knew the second wave would come quickly once the schools opened back up, I just didn’t imagine it would be as quick as it was. I’m a community champion in my area, having meetings with the local council to help keep spreading the message to our community about what they need to do to slow the spread. But figures are getting worse not better. I honesty believe that’s because children are providing the contact link between families that don’t even need to be together to catch the virus. Kids are super spreaders after all. I don’t think we will come out of lockdown, I think it will be extended so that we can see our families over Xmas. Closing schools earlier in my opinion would be a good idea, but I do think considerations have to be made for parents that work.

If considerations should be made for workers shouldn't these same considerations apply to school staff?

It can be dressed up however, but essentially this is what is happening. They are being screwed over to save other peoples jobs and where is the logic in that? How does it help to save other people's job when kids are sent home to isolate with no notice? How does it help to save other peoples jobs when they are off sick? Or do people expect them to crack on and work to provide your childcare?

And meantime, the government paid 50 million to one man to act as a middle man in supplying PPE (which he sourced from a jeweller in Florida - the jeweller was paid over 250 million quid)

Just on a point of order. The government did not pay 50m to the middle man. The jeweller who had the contract with the government paid the man. The government paid a fixed fee to the jeweller, who did actually fulfill his contract. What he does to fulfill his contract is entirely his own matter. Not an unusual thing to employ middle men or contract out services.

My DS's school is closed due to staff shortage (secondary). I work in a primary school and have had to take the week off to school DS resulting in my own school being short staffed. Vicious circle

@Baaaahhhhh

And meantime, the government paid 50 million to one man to act as a middle man in supplying PPE (which he sourced from a jeweller in Florida - the jeweller was paid over 250 million quid)

Just on a point of order. The government did not pay 50m to the middle man. The jeweller who had the contract with the government paid the man. The government paid a fixed fee to the jeweller, who did actually fulfill his contract. What he does to fulfill his contract is entirely his own matter. Not an unusual thing to employ middle men or contract out services.

As right as you are you seem to be missing the point a bit.

Gov paid a jeweller for ppe. If this was their only crime and corruption then I'd be over the moon.
Instead we have:

• PPE stuck in ports
• not enough PPE at the beginning
• TTR as a full blown fiasco
• millions paid out illegally
• criminal negligence in schools.....

I got bored, so I'll stop now.

Errr Cue puzzled expression because they’ve spent all day together in the classroom??? can we not police people - yet try to understand some single parents/ families have no choice but to go to work to provide food and shelter for their families!

@LastGoldenDaysOfSummer

I think it's becoming inevitable that schools will close for a fire break.

It's unfair to ask teachers to continue to work in unsafe conditions. Or for students to attend in unsafe conditions.

If it's to be avoided then there has to be an acknowledgement that prevention methods are totally inadequate. And money spent on improvements. Some students and teachers are crammed into rooms with no window that can be opened. This is utterly wrong. In some rooms social distancing is impossible - classes need to be made smaller.

If parents want schools to stay open they have to lobby the powers that be for greater safety measures in schools and not expect staff to suck it up because you need to work. Very unfair.

Totally agree. School staff are starting to feel like they are collateral damage at the moment. Many modern school buildings do not have opening windows, and the air is recirculated, so next to no chance of escaping an infection. Also social distancing is difficult to achieve, almost impossible at times. All that said I'm sure schools are doing all that they can to minimise infection and the spread of it, but I can foresee closures coming about during the traditional flu season (Jan/Feb) as it may become unsafe for some schools to remain open. If I was a working parent I would start making some contingency plans now really.

Is this the same PPE that wasn't fit for purpose? They asked for one model, got something far superior and useless?

@Butterbeeeen

My DS's school is closed due to staff shortage (secondary). I work in a primary school and have had to take the week off to school DS resulting in my own school being short staffed. Vicious circle

And it's not like you won't face the same bollocks workers do, or lose your job because you've had too much time off. Something that those screaming save jobs forget for some bizarre reason. Same with them being Single parents, vulnerable households etc.

@bananaskinsnomnom

There should be some safety measures OP. Ours is operating very strict bubble systems (the lunch times and play times are spread and are a bit daft for some year groups but it keeps the bubbles separate). Only one bubble is allowed in each toilet (another fun one when you’re doing PE and one of them needs a wee - 10 mile hike back to the classroom). Staggered drop off and pick up. Our school is fine with teachers wearing masks / visors and a good chunk now are, and you have to wear one when entering a class that’s not your own or stepping into another bubble area (near enough impossible not to - the hall is in the year 3 and 4 area for example, the computer room is in the building with Year 6).

Obviously these don’t fully proof it but all schools will have things in place so I’m just a bit surprised by you saying there’s nothing in place - there has to be. We’ve had one bubble go out so far.

As a teacher I’ll handle it whichever way it goes - I’m not sure what to think now.
But if one more child comes in and says they’re going to Friends house for tea and is then dropped off and parent says “Oh Friends mum is picking them up” I could scream. The look on their face when I say I’m not allowed to let them take any other child home because WEARE IN LOCKDOWN AND HOUSEHOLDS SHOULDNT MIX.....cue puzzled expression on parents face....it’s so frustrating how many still don’t “get it”. Hang in there OP.

I understand that this time children can go with other households to assist with childcare. I think they refer to it as ‘casual childcare arrangements ‘. So yes it’s allowed

I think you're allowed one childcare bubble. My children are looked after by grandparents as our childcare bubble.

Closing the schools will be the last thing they plan to do. Social care referrals have more the doubled with neglect and mental health issues. Years 10-13 unlikely to achieve their potential. Ex is a head of education and it’s horrendous. Not sure what the answer is.

Munchkinman but what about blended learning. Or all nobles other ideas!? Why leave it until its sk bad that schools ARE closing. More than half Hulls children are off school. That's properly isolatimg, no exercise and no school. Its awful.

@Crazyunicornlady

Also, this doesn’t account for the fact that there are a lot more primary and secondary schools than there are colleges and universities. Here for example there is 1 college but 46 schools. If all schools each had an outbreak and so did the college, the schools would look far worse on a chart like this, even though the college could have a larger number of actual cases in its single outbreak than all the schools cumulatively.

This is why it is more instructive to look at the infection data from random sampling of the population.

Last week's data said that secondary school kids were the most infected subset of the population, higher than uni aged students and sixth formers for the first time.

New data will be out tomorrow, it will be really interesting to see in the light of the massive increase in kids isolating from schools.

How many of you had an email, letter or questionaire last week from your primary school, concerning your home tech and internet situation?

We did in SE. So did pals in adjacent ed authority and another in the Midlands. Feels like contingency planning to me.