Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools?

[Covidfears]

I’ve been noticing more articles lately in the mainstream press about the difficulties in schools (which will come as no surprise to most people). There’s also been some research which has basically confirmed that schools are driving infections. So, along with it looking like this lockdown has been a waste of time (due to schools being kept open to continue the spread) and people in power calling for Hull schools to be closed do we think that schools will be closing early for Christmas?

Is there any chance that blended learning or rotas will be coming in after the Christmas holidays?

We are a vulnerable family with children in primary school and the risk that sending them every day with no safety measures poses to our family is causing me huge amounts of stress.

1. what about all the schools which are having to close chaotically and without notice?

2. what about all the students whose mental health has plummeted since September because schools are scary, not covid safe, not behaviourally safe and freezing cold right now?

3. what about the students in exam years who've barely been in school this academic year but will sit the same exams as those with no disruption?

People quite literally do not care about situations other than their own. Clearly.

No way. We’d have to have an Ebola outbreak for schools to close again. Closing schools caused far more problems than it solved last time. Nobody is saying it’s a risk-free environment but closing them impacts far too much on too many people for it to be beneficial overall
Completely agree. I am a teacher and there has been only one case Ruth symptoms in my school and one asymptomatic confirmed case would be ridiculous to close us down. Now we have seen and suffered the hugely negative impacts of school closures this summer with no proven upside I don’t believe any gvt would fall for that one again.

with no proven upside

I am losing the will to live. How can people not see that closing down was what drove the numbers down? If that is not a proven upside I have no clue what would be considered as one.

I think we really do owe it to our young people to keep schools open for them given that we didn't last time round.

Schools can't stay open without teachers. Read the posts of teachers who've had covid and had extended periods off as a result. Those who are isolating.

Teachers are also leaving - we've had one resign at my DD's school already.

However much you will it, schools can't stay open if there aren't enough teachers.

If parents don't have teachers backs - and demand a little more safety (masks would cost nothing, for goodness sake), I really think we'll get to a situation where there aren't enough staff to open schools safely and provide an education.

A PP is already saying the cover isn't teaching new content. Do you really want schools as little more than a babysitting centre?

No other country is adopting this approach - even France has masks from age 6 now.

One ridiculous week DSs had to sit in a classroom watching his teachers teach online from home. So they all crowded around one pc

Now we have seen and suffered the hugely negative impacts of school closures this summer with no proven upside I don’t believe any gvt would fall for that one again.

Fall for what? It was the government's fault they closed for so long. If we'd stopped air travel and large events and kept track and trace going we'd have had much more control over the R rate.

If government had engaged with the unions and headteacher begging them to make proper plans to reopen and to fund/allow appropriate adjustments we could have reopened to many more students much quicker.

No one conned the government into closing schools, that was their panicked reaction to their own failure. Gavin Williamson is my pick for most useless minister in a very competitive cabinet.

My y4 son’s school was doing great. A few isolated cases but nothing worrisome and yes, because we weren’t directly affected it’s easy to say ‘don’t close schools’. But today at pick up, the school felt deserted. Turns out nursery, reception, year 1 are home for two weeks.

I’d rather have a planned break or a rota to follow for childcare instead of two weeks isolation. In an ideal world, all three of my boys would be self isolating at the same time but I doubt we will be this lucky.

For many children they don't have this break.
And if they in for part time, then why would those things stop?
(restrictions allowing).
I only have the statutory minimum holiday which isn't much but split up means I didn't have to leave my child for weeks on end, most parents have some leave don't they? Visits from family didn't happen this year because of the restrictions, they live overseas. May not happen next year either. Luckily DS isn't a couple of years younger.

Part time from March would have been preferable. I don't know how well DS will cope with it now, though better than no school at all of course.

@Pollynextdoor

One ridiculous week DSs had to sit in a classroom watching his teachers teach online from home. So they all crowded around one pc

My DD has this for every English Language and maths class - she had to do her Eng Lang speaking GCSE exam to a laptop. I get they are doing their best but this is madness. I'm sure there are a few schools with barely any cases but I'm pretty sure they are a minority. We were tier 1 before 5th Nov so not an area where covid was rampant.

Some schools have good safety measures some just sound good on paper. Not sure what the answer is but something has got to happen in secondaries. So many children on their second and in some cases third isolation! While others have been lucky so far with no isolation. One of my students had a birthday yesterday with "only 8 people for my party because of Covid, but I'm having a sleepover with 3 friends at the weekend". 🤔. Other students in with parents pending test results 😡

Not sure what the answer is but something has got to happen in secondaries.

Mass testing of secondary students who are now the most infected subset of the population. Two week circuit breaker for schools that are riddled with it.
End to only sending home ‘close contacts’ and instead testing the bubble when there is a positive case and isolating more widely.
Masks.
Money for improved ventilation.

Wow so many privileged people on mumsnet who can do their jobs with their kids at home.... or stay at home parents not getting what it’s like for working parents. Businesses are trying to stay afloat and staff are being pressured and working long hours. People shouldn’t be forced to give up their jobs to have their kids at home, can’t you see how many problems that will cause?!

Agree something should happen and I think switching to online learning will provide a better education for them (at least in our school) and protecting vulnerable families. Win- win. And parents can work as no need to baby sit secondary school age children.

4 schools now closed in Cornwall: www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/fourth-cornwall-school-closes-due-4713970

We had some of the lowest case numbers in the country before lockdown. If we have school closures, surely this is happening everywhere?

I see the ‘I’m okay so it’s all fine’ people are blithering on this thread.

I do also really love that people keep trotting out ‘mental health’ and ‘untold damage’ when the evidence shows exactly the opposite. Teen mental health got better, not worse over lockdown- this was a study by a national mental health charity.

In general there was not a massive uptick in suicide rates. They remain the same as predicted for this year.

Honestly, threatening everyone with mental health issues if you don’t get things your own way is pretty damn sociopathic.

I find it especially offensive because it is children in deprived areas missing out on educational opportunities because of a system designed to benefit anyone living in wealthier areas with lower population densities and less cramped housing.

Gosh, no wonder your school doesn’t have any or many cases if you live in a leafy rural area and all the kids are dropped at school and are outdoors all the time.

Here are the facts:

1. Schools aren’t open because there are now so many schools and bubbles closed that it doesn’t count as a fully functioning national education system. If that’s what you are after then you are whistling in the wind.

2)The schools being open in September drove infections into the community. Teenagers- who are largely asymptomatic- have been mixing completely unrestricted in schools and out of schools. We told them they were invulnerable and they believed us. Shame we can’t say the same about their parents or grand parents.

3. They lockdown the entire country so they could keep schools open and have sacrificed thousands of jobs. Was it the right call? No. The elderly and those in their 20’s and 30’s are paying the price for this. One set with their lives and the other with their opportunities. All because this government doesn’t have the imagination or the backbone to stand up to shouty parent groups. Pathetic.

We need a schooling solution that doesn’t involve massively disadvantaging vulnerable students. They should be the priority. We also need the economy open. And we can do that if the infection rate remains high.

So pick one- jobs or schools as you know them (maybe have a think about what else that could look like).

@tappitytaptap

Wow so many privileged people on mumsnet who can do their jobs with their kids at home.... or stay at home parents not getting what it’s like for working parents. Businesses are trying to stay afloat and staff are being pressured and working long hours. People shouldn’t be forced to give up their jobs to have their kids at home, can’t you see how many problems that will cause?!

Far less parents would be affected than having everywhere closed and the mass job loss that would follow. Schools aren’t childcare, they are there to educate.

@BelleSausage excellent post.

Unfortunately, tunnel vision regarding schools will continue.

@tappitytaptap

Quite the opposite actually. All I see right now are mum’s in priviledged positions not wanting to be responsible for their kids. People with genuine childcare needs should be supported.

But let’s not pretend that children in the poorest areas of the country haven’t been failed enormously by this crap back to school plan cooked up by U4T. All they ever cared about were their own kids. They used disadvantaged pupils as a shield. They aren’t even bothered that attendance is down to 50% in some of the poorest wards in the country.

How do you think those parents are coping?

"Now we have seen and suffered the hugely negative impacts of school closures this summer with no proven upside I don’t believe any gvt would fall for that one again."

What on earth are you implying here? "fall for that one again?" You think that they were coerced into it?
The "proven upside" would probably be the reduction in deaths, hospitalisations and infections, wouldn't you agree?

Well said Belle.

I want mine to have opportunities and their health so would rather we save jobs and they have remote education. Little point of the education if no jobs after...

Up to parents to find childcare if needed rather than demand that others should provide it because it suits them.

@Susanwouldntlikeit

No way. We’d have to have an Ebola outbreak for schools to close again. Closing schools caused far more problems than it solved last time. Nobody is saying it’s a risk-free environment but closing them impacts far too much on too many people for it to be beneficial overall Completely agree. I am a teacher and there has been only one case Ruth symptoms in my school and one asymptomatic confirmed case would be ridiculous to close us down. Now we have seen and suffered the hugely negative impacts of school closures this summer with no proven upside I don’t believe any gvt would fall for that one again.

Ridiculous short sight again. This week you're all in but next week it'll be with you. By the time three or four years are closed in your school, it'll take months of on-off closure, cover and babysitting before the rate gets low enough to allow your school to open in a reliable way. Your problem is that you can't see how your school open with "no cases" is inextricably linked to the national rise in cases. Wake up!

@TheNewLook

No way. We’d have to have an Ebola outbreak for schools to close again. Closing schools caused far more problems than it solved last time. Nobody is saying it’s a risk-free environment but closing them impacts far too much on too many people for it to be beneficial overall.

How did it cause more problems than it solved?

It helped get cases under control and everything down to a manageable level- so ICUs were not overwhelmed.

I am not denying it caused problems, and I don't think anyone is advocating for an indefinite school closure like last time, but I think it's ridiculous to make a blanket statement like this with no evidence to back it up.

Anyway, schools are closing with no notice, regardless, so we clearly need to change tactics.

@BelleSausage, Bravo.

Interestingly my friend's secondary school is "not closed" but is "shut to all year groups" for 2 weeks.
They have had a very large number of cases but Public Health England have not closed it. They had to limp on with 45 teachers off (mostly self-isolating) and 400 odd kids off.
It's not schools themselves who make the decision to close but the government (Public Health England).
I wonder how many other secondary schools are not closed but also not open?
Makes the government statistics look better than they actually are...

Thanks 😊