Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

Endoplasmic (great user name btw) I think your son is right.

No-one seems to care about the mental health impacts of kids who are quite reasonably worried about bringing the virus home. My daughter feels the same.

Some mental health impacts on kids seem to matter while others don't seemingly. Funny that.

I suspect the mental health impacts on those children worried about bringing the virus home would be a lot less with universal mask wearing which is easy and cheap. But apparently we're not willing to take that small step for teacher / child safety or the mental health benefits.

He was wearing a mask from the first day back, when they were just "suggested" in corridors and not many others were. It was only after half term that the school made it compulsory in corridors but they are not allowed to wear them in lessons.

Many are worried if they infect the parent and it is fatal.
DS is 6 he washes his hands profusely all day.
I've noticed more news stories of younger people dying.
One family lost 3 the DM age 74 with 2 sons age 42 & 44.

My DS is asking every morning if he can stay home. He says he doesn't feel safe at school because they're not socially distancing and lots of kids have coughs at the moment.

He's not scared if catching it, he's scared of giving it to me and his dad.

Guardian news blog just now -

"Mass asymptomatic testing for Covid-19 should be carried out in schools, the Welsh government’s expert advisory panel has recommended."

Has someone been reading this thread?

Infection rates in secondary kids increasing after a blip due to half term. Now definitely higher than uni students.

How high are they willing to let it go?

The way things stand in my area, cases will be higher than they were at the start of this second lockdown. Where do they go from here? The only thing left is to switch to remote learning for schools if hospital admissions become unmanageable. Feel sorry for the high school kids and school staff who are in limbo trying to pretend that everything is fine. What a weird situation we are in.

I notice most people are talking about secondaries in this thread. Do you think they are genuinely safer/have less spread or is it just that little ones are generally a-symptomatic?

That'd be because of the thread title?

Really worried one of the dcs' teachers wil get really ill or worse. There are several in their 50s/60s. Plus worried about parents dying including myself as my kids have already lost their dad. Also worried about year 12 dd's A levels grades/prospects being damaged. Such a no win situation.

But, according to ONS surveys (so based on samples rather than testing ) there does seem to be lower incidence in young children. Still could be because they are harder to swab.

@noblegiraffe

Infection rates in secondary kids increasing after a blip due to half term. Now definitely higher than uni students.

How high are they willing to let it go?

As predicted last week!

@Beebityboo

I notice most people are talking about secondaries in this thread. Do you think they are genuinely safer/have less spread or is it just that little ones are generally a-symptomatic?

More are asymptomatic, but it's also easier to control mass spread as bubble system is stricter if that makes sense?

It was interesting to note that preschool ages did not have the half term dip; most nurseries are private and so open during that time.

BBC just now

@NeurotrashWarrior

Now schools in New York and Greece are/have closed

Sorry I missed that, is there more info?

In addition to that Cyprus (I have family there) have closed their colleges and lyceums (Year 10 and above) since Monday just gone. This is in conjunction with a second lockdown - much like our one currently but they are being sensible with their older school children.

If only better decisions by the gov were made last half term here.

cyprus-mail.com/2020/11/11/coronavirus-draconian-new-measures-for-limassol-and-paphos/

A primary student is likely to be with the same class of 30 all day.
My GCSE age children are likely to be with 5 different classes of 30, plus meeting about another 300 in the corridors / at break and lunch.

Scottish NASUWT have written to the Scottish government asking them to withdraw misleading claims that education staff are not at higher risk of infection than other key workers, based on the fudged evidence we have discussed, but they don't seem to have noticed the teachers of unknown type issue.

They've also noticed that figures suggest infection rates in school staff of up to 758 per 100,000.

twitter.com/nasuwt_scotland/status/1329761545769930753?s=21

@Piggywaspushed

That'd be because of the thread title?

Oops!

longwigglylines, same here. DS and DSS yesterday and today, one crying, my DS saying he feels overwhelmed by it.

NeurotrashWarrior, thank god its being put out there now, but the media needs to give the data alongside narrative reports of experience on the ground. Its the only way some people take information in.

I suspect this will happen within the next week anyway. Government seems to test public opinion, and also to prepare the ground.....and they will, I still think schools will close early before Christmas. Always have thought this......or I'll eat my hat. But its what happens after that really matters.

They've also noticed that figures suggest infection rates in school staff of up to 758 per 100,000 bloody hell. This is not at all acceptable. I wonder where can I find the equivalent data for other professions? are front line NHS anywhere near 758 per 100,000? I thought childrens services were risky enough, thank god I'm no longer in education though, I'd be terrified.

I think the principle is this, schools staff have the same rights to safe working conditions as any other workers. Different measures need to be taken in different settings, but measures need to be taken to minimise risk. All other employers have a legal duty to implement safe working conditions, and practices. At no other time would risk to life be overlooked, it would be considered illegal.

@noblegiraffe

Infection rates in secondary kids increasing after a blip due to half term. Now definitely higher than uni students.

How high are they willing to let it go?

The secondary school graph is beautiful really. If you were a research scientist conducting an experiment to confirm that current school conditions are ripe for the spread of covid, this would make your day.

They've also noticed that figures suggest infection rates in school staff of up to 758 per 100,000.

I know I shouldn't be shocked, as anecdotal evidence of my own has shown me lots of teachers are getting it, but to see it written down!

No doubt the Government will still be saying all us school staff are picking up from isolated cases outside of school!

I walked past the local walk-in test centre yesterday evening just after 6 pm. Big marquee and so on taking up half a car park, about 10 staff all well protected with PPE, 12 socially distanced testing bays, so I was told. Occupancy? One person being tested. Apparently had been quiet all day.
Why the heck don’t they march groups of secondary kids and teachers down and get them tested? Or better still, put the test centres outside schools so they can carry out mass testing relatively easily? I truly don’t understand why some sensible thought didn’t go into planning the testing system when it was known schools would reopen. Well actually, scratch that, I do, it’s just the usual lack of competence and forethought.

@Aragog

They've also noticed that figures suggest infection rates in school staff of up to 758 per 100,000. I know I shouldn't be shocked, as anecdotal evidence of my own has shown me lots of teachers are getting it, but to see it written down!

No doubt the Government will still be saying all us school staff are picking up from isolated cases outside of school!

If 1 in 80 people are infected, wouldn't you expect 800 out of 10,000 people in the general population to be infected?

(Not wanting to downplay the problem, of course, but I think that's the maths?)

@borntobequiet

I walked past the local walk-in test centre yesterday evening just after 6 pm. Big marquee and so on taking up half a car park, about 10 staff all well protected with PPE, 12 socially distanced testing bays, so I was told. Occupancy? One person being tested. Apparently had been quiet all day. Why the heck don’t they march groups of secondary kids and teachers down and get them tested? Or better still, put the test centres outside schools so they can carry out mass testing relatively easily? I truly don’t understand why some sensible thought didn’t go into planning the testing system when it was known schools would reopen. Well actually, scratch that, I do, it’s just the usual lack of competence and forethought.

Even better, you can batch test. So you can pool the samples from a class and test together as 1 test.

If you have a positive test, then you isolate and test everyone.

It's an effective approach that uses tests economically. If that is, the people organising testing can be bothered to be competent about it.