Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

JO'B has touched on it occasionally... could do better!

Our local press is very good at reporting every school that is sending home a large number of students. I'm not sure if this is because there are still enough schools that are open that they can keep on top of it?

You would think that large numbers of schools suddenly closing their doors would be national news!

I’m baffled how journalists lurk on here looking to pick up sad face nonstories about ridiculously entitled posters, but don’t want to pursue a real story when it’s handed to them on a plate.

There must be a D notice out. Or the editors have had their arms twisted somehow.

I cannot understand why they are all
So quiet on this. Schools are being left open and unprotected at the cost of jobs and lives. How is this not a national scandal?

I think there is denial about what schools are like from people who don't have to go to one on a regular basis.

I think people don't want to acknowledge it, because then they'd have to acknowledge they are sending their kids somewhere unsafe.

I do think it's interesting there aren't more sadface single parents with e.g. "My kid has to isolate so I can't do the school run and I have been fined for keeping the older one off".

Been lurking on this and the previous thread- thank you noble for your perserverwnce! I can’t believe what’s going on with the schools. I live near Hull, I don’t know any schools that aren’t affected. My two dd’s Secondary school currently has kids off in all year groups- they have given up isolating the whole year group, just using seating plans. Which leads me to this point. The teachers have gradually been moving the students desks further and further back in the classroom. This means the desks are so close together, they are having to climb over the desks/chairs to get to their seats. I’m wondering if when PHE are involved in determining who gets to isolate or not, are they assuming the desks are spaced well apart? Not rammed together? It’s surely a massive fire risk too??

I’m a scientist/boffin, so this all seems so bloody counterintuitive. My main concern is that ‘keeping kids in school’ is the hill this government will die on. They’ve made so many u-turns already, I’m really concerned they are digging their heels in on this one and ignoring all common sense/evidence.

Lastly, did anyone else read the original thread title and thought it looked like a Cryptic crossword clue? Or was that just me....

The teachers have gradually been moving the students desks further and further back in the classroom.

I’m doing this to some extent too. It is assumed in any contact tracing that I am 2m from all pupils during lessons, so I’m trying to ensure that’s true.

(I am lucky in that the classrooms I teach in are just about big enough for this. It does mean that the kids are closer together though.)

I’m wondering if when PHE are involved in determining who gets to isolate or not, are they assuming the desks are spaced well apart? Not rammed together?

I wonder about this too. We have had to file seating plans and I assume someone (not sure exactly who) looks at them when deciding who goes home. I very much doubt anyone goes round and measures the distances between desks.

@noblegiraffe
update on hvac software from my husband. He doesn't have access to it and would have to jump through hoops as he is in a totally different part of the company (core deve vs EU consultancy) so sorry, but I can't get my hands on it officially. I'm looking for a crack or something as now I'm intrigued in general :)

Our head or HR has a metre stick she is using to check distances in the room. She makes a roughly 2.5 m circle and sends anyone home from inside it. 2.5 m to account for the fact children aren't static poles so they may move slightly in there space. As a few staff have had to isolate based on this method they has been a recent push on getting the tables further away from the front. This is easier in some rooms. In some it just isn't possible.

Oh dear. It’s all a bit Dad’s Army, isn’t it? Or better still, something written by Graham Linehan.
How we’d laugh at the HT with a metre stick and a rough 2.5 m circle “because kids move, you know” if it were a sitcom. In fact I’m off work for a while so might start writing one.

(I am lucky in that the classrooms I teach in are just about big enough for this. It does mean that the kids are closer together though.)

Yeah, that's sort of the worry, isn't it? Preserve a teacher from going home to SI but add another 10 -1 2 kids!

Lastly, did anyone else read the original thread title and thought it looked like a Cryptic crossword clue? Or was that just me....

LOL, no, I just knew it was noble !

I love your username : flashbacks to O Grade biology there.

How are these crowded corridors not a fire risk (aside from the obvious covid concerns)? Imagine if there were an actual fire when everyone's crammed together like that? And there's a panic?

They aren't a fire risk because in a fire situation all the people are moving the same way (to the nearest exit) so it only takes a few minutes for everyone to get out. All doors on to the corridor are should be fire / smoke doors to keep the corridor safe if the fire is in a classroom and corridors don't shouldn't have combustible material in them (so there's not going to be fire / smoke spread in the corridor).

Additionally, the idea of panic in a fire situation is an urban myth. Schools have fire drills every year so evacuation is a pretty normal experience. Kids are far better at complying than adults!

(I am lucky in that the classrooms I teach in are just about big enough for this. It does mean that the kids are closer together though)
In two of DDs A-Level classes there’s only 15 students. But that means they’ve got them in the teeniest classrooms (my utility/boot room is bigger) and they sit in three rows of five, literally elbows touching. And the teacher is not 2 metres away. They’re as far as they can be, but it isn’t 2 metres. And to the teacher that far away, the students are now closer and more cramped than they were before COVID’measures’. And this in a school that was the first in our county to be spot checked by HSE, and passed with flying colours!

And this in a school that was the first in our county to be spot checked by HSE, and passed with flying colours!

Ours too. Has anyone ever seen these inspectors? I’m beginning to think they must do their inspections after everyone’s gone home!

@HipTightOnions

And this in a school that was the first in our county to be spot checked by HSE, and passed with flying colours!

Ours too. Has anyone ever seen these inspectors? I’m beginning to think they must do their inspections after everyone’s gone home!

We had a virtual inspection recently, so read into that what you will!

Thanks Sansa, that could explain a lot.

Was listening to World at One segment on “saving Christmas” and Tim Harford spoke very movingly of his mother’s death just before Christmas, when he was quite young. He then spoke of his concerns that his own children could pick it up at school and pass to older members of the family - so might not see them over Christmas to keep them safe.
It was noticeable to me because I think it’s the only time I’ve heard this worry (school infections) being spoken of recently. I emailed the programme with my thoughts on their dereliction of duty in never mentioning the situation in schools, apart from indirectly in this instance.

Still listening to LBC just very briefly mentioned schools in a discussion about how the situation with the virus could be improved.. stated schools are where outbreaks occur but then Shelagh Fogarty and her colleague were scratching their heads about how to improve the situation... hmm there doesn't seem to be many outbreaks in hospitality at the moment... hmm what can be done? I DESPAIR.

They could bloody read MN and get some ideas. We had a whole thread of suggestions.

@noblegiraffe

They could bloody read MN and get some ideas. We had a whole thread of suggestions.

YES!!!!!

What is wrong with journalists. You can hardly open a 'AIBU about my bridesmaid' thread for 10 minutes before it appears in the Daily Mail and yet when it comes to really simple ways to make schools safer, the journos are what - afraid of common sense?

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, it's a long thread - but the Join Zoe app has introduced a school communities feature to collect data. Has to be headteacher signing up.

covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-school-communities

covid.joinzoe.com/

Am useless with links but basically I’ve just had an email from the Zoe app to say that they have just launched a School Communities programme to monitor Covid transmission in schools more closely. Presume anyone who’s already reporting on the app will get the same email. Says they’ve already got over 400 schools signed up and would like to get to at least 5000.