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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 13/11/2020 21:39

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

  1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
  2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
  3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
  4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
  5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
  6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
  7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
  8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
  9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.
10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT
OP posts:
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RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 13/11/2020 23:31

The government and experts have been very clear that all schools are COVID secure.

Haha. Things tge government have been very clear about:

There will be no lockdown
Schools will not close
There will be an oven ready Brexit deal

So you know... bucket of salt.

How did you think that schools could be made covid secure? Like really? How do you imagine that would be able to happen within the existing set up? Did you go to school?

Anecdotally, aside from behaviour we're doing alright at my school. We have classes of 22 max at the moment (lots of overseas students who are stuck in various countries, yet still on roll). This definitely helps - we all know that the smaller the bubble the better.

monkeytennis97 · 13/11/2020 23:31

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Numberblock7 · 13/11/2020 23:32

Thanks Noble, appreciate your response.

I’m afraid compulsory masks for children are my line in the sand, and actually the one thing I would pull my children out of school over, though my children are younger and have SEN so my perspective is very different. Will definitely continue to write to my MP regarding funding and other measures though!

BeaMends · 13/11/2020 23:33

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CallmeAngelina · 13/11/2020 23:33

"In any event, all DC including those who are disadvantaged will be in school because schools will not be closing at any time. Period."

I have news for you: they already are!

herecomesthsun · 13/11/2020 23:33

@Juststopswimming

Jux - I think people wanted their kids back in school because even knowing what the disruption would be like, it is still far better than any of the alternatives.
it is not better than family bereavements, Even bloody SAGE is now admitting kids take it back to their families. It is fucking outrageous.
RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 13/11/2020 23:34

I would add that parents gathering in large groups in playgrounds at drop off and pick up are a major issue at primary level.

All schools I'm involved with have staggered drop offs, one way systems and you keep moving or are 2m apart. If any of them choose not to wear a mask, we have no power to enforce it.

noblegiraffe · 13/11/2020 23:34

number I think everyone in schools would accept mask exemptions for children with SEN. We already do in the corridors. This would be secondary, I don't think there's any real push for them in primary.

OP posts:
monkeytennis97 · 13/11/2020 23:34

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Time2change2 · 13/11/2020 23:35

Anyone who is suggesting blended learning is coming from a place of either naivety or privilege.
A large slice of this countries kids are disadvantaged. Learning at home for many of these kids just wouldn’t ever happen.
Many kids not classed as disadvantaged and learning at home still wouldn’t happen for many.
For lots of kids it would just be only attending school every other week, and in between doing something totally different (not learning or educational)
Many kids will really struggle with mild sen and will feel unable to work away from school.
Others will give it a go but in reality be so distracted at home that learning won’t come close to the quality of school work.
It’s schools open or schools closed. Neither are good options but sometimes you have to go with the lesser of 2 evils and that is most definately schools staying open

KittCat · 13/11/2020 23:35

Where exactly is Gavin Williamson these days...

CallmeAngelina · 13/11/2020 23:35

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HipTightOnions · 13/11/2020 23:35

@WhyNotMe40

I hear echoes of Ecosse
That’s it! I thought I recognised the style.
BertNErnie · 13/11/2020 23:36

You might want to retract the schools
WILL not close mine Madrid.

A simple google found this:

www.kentonline.co.uk/dartford/news/whole-school-to-shut-following-second-covid-19-case-237163/

MadridSun · 13/11/2020 23:36

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herecomesthsun · 13/11/2020 23:37

@Juststopswimming

Jux - I think people wanted their kids back in school because even knowing what the disruption would be like, it is still far better than any of the alternatives.
Me, I like being alive. It is def better than the alternative.
RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 13/11/2020 23:37

schools will not be closing at any time. Period

Apart from the ones that are already closed. Apart from the LAs who have asked for part time schooling to be introduced. Apart from the ones that will close over the next 5 weeks. Period.

There are ways of keeping them open, the government just seems to have no interest in doing that.

monkeytennis97 · 13/11/2020 23:37

Waving at EcosseGrin

RoseTintedAtuin · 13/11/2020 23:37

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herecomesthsun · 13/11/2020 23:38

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CallmeAngelina · 13/11/2020 23:38

Am I right in thinking you're a management consultant, @MadridSun?
If so, may I ask when you last set foot inside a school? (bearing in mind that since March, visitors including parents aren't allowed in the building).

MarmiteCrumpet25 · 13/11/2020 23:39

I read that report earlier and I’m sure it said teachers were no more likely to test positive than other professionals? I’m coming to the end of a 14 day period of self isolation and I work in a school office. The virus seems to be causing more problems in my school for support staff than for teachers currently.

WhyNotMe40 · 13/11/2020 23:39

@CallmeAngelina

"In any event, all DC including those who are disadvantaged will be in school because schools will not be closing at any time. Period."

I have news for you: they already are!

Just to add to this. When schools are closed due to staff illness. The staff are ill Got that? As in poorly. So no remote work set at all. Even vulnerable students. Because of illness. How the fuck is that preferable to blended learning?!

In the nice leafy SW Tier 1 shire I teach in, schools are closing left right and centre this week due to staffing and too many bubbles popping.
If it is happening here, it is happening everywhere.
Open your eyes. There is a media suppression going on, but schools are closing.

WhyNotMe40 · 13/11/2020 23:40

@MarmiteCrumpet25

I read that report earlier and I’m sure it said teachers were no more likely to test positive than other professionals? I’m coming to the end of a 14 day period of self isolation and I work in a school office. The virus seems to be causing more problems in my school for support staff than for teachers currently.
They compared teachers to care workers and front line health workers