Would you allow your child to be tested by army personnel in school? What about vaccinated?

[Treesofwood]

Would you expect them to need parental consent to do this to young children?

I'd definitely want to know what 'secured' means before I agreed to this.

@movingonup20

Yes, you do realise they have drs and nurses in the army? Untrained people won't be vaccinating

The Army people doing the testing in Liverpool aren't medics. I'm sure they've had adequate training for what they're being asked to do (an hour or so?) but they're not medics.

If there's to be a fast roll out of vaccinations across the country I expect there'll be similar, but again, how much training do you need to deliver the same injection 100s of times a day? I had to do DH's for a while and got shown once by the district nurse.

I'd be happy for me or DC to be tested or vaccinated on that basis but of course everyone will have to consent.

For some reason the idea of soldiers going into schools is making me think of that Torchwood story

It's happening in Liverpool. Consent not needed (but you can opt out apparently). Every child given a barcode. Those who test positive "secured" whatever that means.

So you are assumed to be consenting unless you opt out? I feel like that's a quicker way of gaining consent but not saying they're doing it without your consent because if you actually didnt agree there is the opportunity to opt out.

Seized and quarantined? Where? Chester Zoo It has always been possible to get court orders for the isolation of a person with certain infectious diseases. There are secure units in hospitals for this purpose, the only one I know well is the Royal Free Hospital in London and they’ve only got a few beds so I doubt they will fill up with kidnapped children any time soon. No one will be seized for being positive for COVID unless they deliberately flout the self isolation rules we should all know like the back of our hand by now. Even then I’d suggest it’s extremely unlikely.

It's an opt out system of consent, in that parents are informed of what is proposed and the reply only if it's 'no'

That is administratively easier and has a better PH outcome that if orms saying 'yes' are required as some will be lost/forgotten/overlooked. For testing, I think this is just about acceptable.

There are some areas which (reputedly) use opt out for jabs as well, and I am far less happy about this. But agree that it's extremely unlikely that the vax programme will be in schools as DC are so far down the priority list (if CV/CEV I'd expect the GP to do it irrespective of age)

Most soldiers are terrified of children

All schools have to have a place where pupils who are showing symptoms need to be taken before they can be collected and taken home. So I assume in this instance schools will have set up a room for children who have tested positive to go.

I also assume this is not a surprise visit to schools and parents will have been notified and given the chance to opt out. It had been in the news for a few days that Liverpool was taking part in this testing experiment so assume it would have been widely discussed in the local news and social media.

Why did you mention vaccines?

When I saw the soldiers on the news last night, in short sleeve order (presumably for hygiene) it made me think what exactly is it about a man with rolled up sleeves that's different to a man in a short sleeved shirt.....?

No I wouldn't consent

Yes tested. Yes vaccinated. Would expect to give consent but would be happy with assumed or opt-out consent.

This did make me laugh.
What does OP think the army are going to do?
Make them march about? Shout in their faces? Beat them around the head with rifle butts?
They'll get a jab in the arm and a sticker for being brave. Fucks sake.

Testing maybe, vaccination no. Neither without my explicit consent.

@Fizbosshoes my answer was based on our school experience. Not sure what the Liverpool set up is, but I suspect there is a bit of a misunderstanding there on what "secured" etc means!

The Army people doing the testing in Liverpool aren't medics. I'm sure they've had adequate training for what they're being asked to do (an hour or so?) but they're not medics

They've doing the logistics. Are you sure they're also doing the testing rather than just delivering it?

It's pretty important to find out how much covid there is in schools, so I hope people are deciding to have their DC tested.

Yes, you might have to put your DC into SI if they test positive. I'd be quite interested to see the full passage from which the word 'secured' was taken

I'd expect to give consent first but I have no problem with this.

I've had a swab taken by a soldier at a test centre. I've no idea of her military position or medical training but she was polite and competent.

I had a flu jab done by a pharmacist the other week. I know pharmacists are highly qualified but I don't really think her training in how to administer a flu vaccination would have formed more than an hour or so of her overall training.

I'm sure many others, without current medical qualifications, can be trained very effectively to do simple swab and vaccination procedures.

I'm sure any soldiers entering schools won't be wearing full combat gear or be armed. They'll be in army tshirts and trousers which is hardly intimidating.

@FippertyGibbett

HCA’s give vaccinations in GP surgeries after training. You do not need to be a qualified nurse to vaccinate.

That's where you are wrong, you need to be a registered HCP to administer any drug, a HCA is not allowed to vaccinate, and you need consent.

For a saliva or non invasive test, fine. For vaccination if I could be present, fine. If it was the current swab tests I would withdraw my child with ASD, they would be absolutely traumatised by it and I suspect the testers would refuse to do it anyway given the manhandling that would be needed.

Secured surely just means the same as if they show symptoms at school- isolated and parents asked to collect immediately to quarantine. I’m sure it doesn’t involve handcuffs and cells!

This needs to be handled very carefully. I had a 7 year old ask me if the army was real last week. She really wasn't sure if they were just something from films.
This could very easily be a traumatic experience.

@mpsw

The Army people doing the testing in Liverpool aren't medics. I'm sure they've had adequate training for what they're being asked to do (an hour or so?) but they're not medics

They've doing the logistics. Are you sure they're also doing the testing rather than just delivering it?

It's pretty important to find out how much covid there is in schools, so I hope people are deciding to have their DC tested.

Yes, you might have to put your DC into SI if they test positive. I'd be quite interested to see the full passage from which the word 'secured' was taken

There was footage of them in plastic aprons, sleeves rolled up, putting swabs in people's mouths last night.

HCA’s do vaccinate.

I would be perfectly happy with testing on an opt out basis, with close contacts of positive cases being asked to quarantine whatever their test status. As a PP has said, schools already have arrangements for the isolation of symptomatic children until they are able to be collected, and I would again be happy for those to be used

I've not heard this and I teach in Liverpool..... so I'm assuming it's secondary age kids not four year olds.

Also, I assume it's the saliva test not the swab test, so not invasive at all really.

Finally, I've you know about it and have been informed of the right to withdraw then they're getting consent are they not?
Because everybody not withdrawing their child is consenting??

Personally I'm completely on board with the mass testing and am finding the hysterical objections (often from people who don't live in Liverpool) a bit bizarre.

Nobody's being forced to do anything, most people are happy to help though, me and ds are getting ours done in an hour

Where's this happening..... I like a man in uniform

Seriously though 'army people' do have families too and I'm sure are capable of talking to children. I'd have no problem consenting in the same way I would for someone who works for the NHS.

Thank @BecomeStronger

Has anyone had a bad testing experience at the hands of a non-HCP tester (military or other family member if testing at home)? just wondering if it's been a common issue - either more widely or now at the start of the Liverpool testing.