Mink mutation

[Lilybet1980]

Anyone know how worried we should be about the mink outbreaks in Denmark?

@Fittata

It really makes me despair of the entire human race. We bring all of this on ourselves by our barbaric treatment of animals, nature and the world we live in. We are just reaping what we sow...

Totally agree

Thanks Lweji I’m on your wavelength but used to dumbing down explanations as a frontline clinician. I have a particular interest in the individuals that appear to be severely affected by Covid 19 leading to death/ long term recovery. I had a patient that died “of Covid” apparently as they had no co morbidities. However they may have overlooked a chronic inflammatory disease ( periodontal disease) as a genetically predisposing factor. Since perio disease is not easily diagnosed by medical professionals it is probably not recorded. It is now accepted that diabetes, heart disease and periodontal disease are related.
I’m also fascinated by the cellular response, there are some studies underway in Bristol looking at T cell immunity in frontline health staff. I know that T cell levels appear to be high in mild/ asymptomatic cases regardless of viral load. Again it would be interesting to find out if this is natural genetic predisposition or a result of working environment.

Lweji do you think that the virus possibly came from Mink in the first place?

I’m not an advocate of natural herd immunity, this virus is likely to become endemic, like the common cold and flu viruses it will be more severe/ fatal in specific groups. We need a blanket vaccination programme to buy time, while a more targeted response is developed.
Vaccine is definitely the way to go but I think we have an amazing opportunity to get to the bottom of the obvious genetic susceptibility in some individuals while the global scientific community are studying the pandemic.
My “knickers in a twist “ comment was aimed at the media’s usual misdirection. The man-mink-man transfer may interfere with the vaccine development/ effectiveness but not necessarily make the virus more deadly/infectious. On a global level Denmark have done what China should have done 12 months ago.

Lweji so we either catch [and survive] the mutation or die. That makes sense.

I agree with you that it doesn’t make sense. Because that's not remotely what I said.

The man-mink-man transfer may interfere with the vaccine development/ effectiveness but not necessarily make the virus more deadly/infectious.

Exactly, although we don't know yet. But there are people already infected and there have been no red flags.

They are being cautious, not because of this strain, but because of the potential for having the virus circulating in minks and going between minks and humans, which could create a strain that could indeed be worse. Better safe than sorry.

On a global level Denmark have done what China should have done 12 months ago.

China has a problem with population density, that includes animals of all sorts. It tends to be a hot spot for new flu strains, but swine flu came from Mexico.

The take home lesson, IMO, is that we shouldn't be complacent with pathogens that circulate in animals and have the potential to spread to humans. And animals that are in close contact with humans and these humans should be monitored.
Still, we can't prevent them all.

@Angrymum22
Apart from the pandemic, this is a fascinating virus, and I agree that it can end up teaching us a lot about immunity, genetic susceptibility, pathogenicity, and so on.

I haven't looked much into the immunity aspects (also not my field), and haven't followed much of the research as it mounts and I get busier with the new academic year, but it looks like we will need to learn a lot more about cellular immunity for this. This may actually help some vaccine research for other diseases, where vaccines have been elusive so far.

Lweji in view of the mink inter species infection has there been wider testing in all animals that are intensively farmed. It does seem to be a very adaptable virus.

but swine flu came from Mexico

I thought there was a conclusion that Swine flu H1N1 was the same strain as Spanish flu?

I thought mink was banned in the fur trade but to cull animals like this shocking.

I agree with covid becoming endemic, as previous cold viruses did.
And that pathogens tranferring between human- farm animals- human need to be monitored and husbandry practices need to be re-assessed.
I just hope that covid does not turn up to be mutating faster than the usual and in the sensitive areas to antibodies (like HIV virus does gor example), because I am wishing for a quicker exit from these doom days!

The cull is for health reasons, so it needs to be done.
There are millions of them

I don't know. I would assume to some degree.
I've seen testing of different animals (also because good lab models are needed), but not sure about monitoring.

@Bikingbear

but swine flu came from Mexico

I thought there was a conclusion that Swine flu H1N1 was the same strain as Spanish flu?

The Spanish flu wasn't Spanish.

As far as I know, the H1N1 strain that was also called swine flu first originated in a pig farm in Mexico.
H1N1 has many strains.

I would like some extensive testing and monitoring is susceptible species to happen.
There has been quite a few outbreaks in meat processing business. It is not an industry where people are particularly close to each other at all. And there are no reasons for them taking less measures than other business, and it has happened in several countries. I would like them to come back with the answer to whether there is a reason related to infected animals or not. And whether it poses a risk to us or not.

Yes both the Spanish flu and the swine flu are H1N1.

The Spanish flu is called so because Spain was the only European country openly reporting the devastating effects of it, both in the newspapers and in medical papers.
The rest of Europe and USA were fully immersed in the war, and they were trying to keep it hush hush. Soldiers were succumbing in the trenches. Eventually, they agreed to pack it and go home because of the Spanish flu, and took the virus back to other countries with the soldiers.
I am not sure they really know about the point of origin.

I only heard a few weeks ago H1N1 (Swine flu) and Spanish flu were the same, you folk confirming it is blowing my brain.

2011 H1N1 almost wiped me out, my family was call for.
I knew that it was hitting younger people harder than usual at the time there was a theory that it could be related to a flu that was around a long time ago, giving older people an immunity.
My heart hurts for the young people of 1920 who'd battled war and who didn't have the medical ability to treat people. God love them.

@Holothane

I thought mink was banned in the fur trade but to cull animals like this shocking.

Absolutely necessary (sadly) to cull the mink livestock

"Italy, the Netherlands, Spain and Sweden and the US have all reported new coronavirus cases linked to mink farms, the World Health Organization said. Denmark imposed strict lockdown measures in parts of the country after a coronavirus mutation in minks spread to humans, resulting in plans to cull its entire mink population." Read more » RTÉ

Thanks for the knowledgeable posters on this subject.

The Spanish flu wasn't Spanish.

I think it originated in the US 😳

It is earlier in this very same thread, but if you are interested have a look to civet cats and the SARS virus.
Not sure how close minks and civets are as species, but they do look similar indeed.

The young generations of the First World War times they had to go to war, survive in the treanches, the Spanish flu in the trenches and army hospitals, then the Spanish flu further spreading in their home country (taking now the female young population down too), and then the Great Depression.
That virus was more deadly in the young and middle age group (child bearing and rearing ages). In some documentaries I have seen, there was lack of people to operate machines and harvest crops, and so on.

Few years later though, they were in the rise and the economy expanded and kept going up and up, with plenty of opportunities. So there is always light at the end of this.

Apparently ...

In the United States, nearly 10,000 minks at nine fur farms in Utah died of Covid-19, state veterinarian Dean Taylor told NBC News last month.

I don’t wish to upset animal lovers here ...

but does anyone know why the pictures of the euthanised minks show their claws as having been removed?

Seems maybe that with Spain and Netherlands covid was transmitted from human to mink but not back again - but who knows

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/17/spain-to-cull-nearly-100000-mink-in-coronavirus-outbreak