Mink mutation

[Lilybet1980]

Anyone know how worried we should be about the mink outbreaks in Denmark?

Completmentfille I am not sure if that’s a myth. I think it’s something a lot of people say so everyone convinces themselves it’s true. In reality they can mutate to become less or more deadly

Its not a myth its scientific fact

The deadlier a virus the less effective it is at spreading, as a general rule of thumb

Ebola is one example

I think the opposite is true, people scare themselves with no clear evidence

@Aridane yes, absolutely agreed, new cotton is to be avoided. Other natural fabrics are available, more sustainably and produced in colder climates. (Besides wool and sheepskin) Flax and bamboo are not the only ones, it seems

Re-used cotton fabrics are better than waste, of course. But artificial fabric cannot be used, because of the polluting micro particles. (Some fabric is being made from recycled plastic, but a) that looks like greenwash/eyewash, like most plastic 'recycling' and b) it will leak those appalling micro particles of plastic every time it is washed.

But this virus is so effective at spreading it doesn’t really matter if it kills the host. Because the host goes around spreading it for ages before symptoms appear anyway. It could be true for a virus which has symptoms quickly and kills the host within 24 hours

I am not entirely sure, but I remember reading it being disputed that sometimes they do mutate to become more deadly

In the case of the mink, the concern is not that the virus is more deadly or contagious than regular covid 19, merely that it is more resistant to antibodies

Helen doesn't stress this, but also: right now these mink strains make up less that 1/100,000 of the circulating human cases. Even if they do evade vaccines (which I doubt) we're talking about an initial 0.001% decrease in efficacy of a vaccine we hope to be 70% effective.

The above is from Carl Bergstrom

There are thousands of mutations in #SARSCoV2 arising constantly. The fact that a few have been observed in minks will not change the strains in circulation in humans. If they were beneficial for the virus to infect its human host, they would be at high frequency already.

And the above from Francois Balloux

If the authorities seem very worried, its because they are. They are worried because of the potential consequences. That they are worried doesn't mean they know anything we don't. It simply means they are applying appropriate precautions, which is a good thing.

I used to be very much into environmental issues, supporting e.g. Greenpeace when I was a teenager in the 90s. Me and my friends were picking rubbish from the river banks my hometown, I organised events at school to raise money for the WWF, was interested in fair trade and slow fashion all before 'being green' became trendy.

Because not many people gave a shit about the environment and animal rights back then and life got in between I haven't been campaigning or doing very much other than sorting my rubbish and trying not to buy too much plastic tat.

I'm a meat eater and can't abide the cult like attitudes that come with Veganism. i also dislike the processed food factor with meat substitutes.

So, having somewhat lost sight of campaigning for animal rights I find myself completely shocked and disgusted that a progressive country like Denmark would have a fur trade. I am so completely appalled and repulsed by this and the fact that those poor minks are CV carriers and have got be slaughtered in the 1000s.

Reading about the appalling news I wonder what the fuck is wrong with people. I am now planning to go vegetarian starting in January and will be informing myself carefully about which environmental charities to support.

Selling bats at markets in China and killing minks for the fur trade in Denmark (selling to China!). I just feel quite sick at the thought of this.

I don't like the idea of large charities as I don't trust that they make best use of donations and reject the chugger approach to fund raising. Can anyone recommend any green charities that are more grass root and less corporate?
Also, what steps can I take to become live in a more environmentally friendly way without all the trendiness and hypocrisy that is surrounding this in the recent couple of years?

I agree that a lot of vegans are evangelical about veganism without any inkling that popular vegan products such as non dairy milks and soy are hugely environmentally problematic

I dont think there is an easy answer here.

Those quotes are interesting @Complementfile

Just thinking out loud here, but the idea that it's really rare at the moment doesn't really mean much for the future with how easily spread coronaviruses can be. I remember the initial China outbreak being extremely low numbers and the Chinese government saying they had it all under control so I'm still quite worried.

MrsMigginsMate

The difference for me is the above two were worried about covid 19 long before the rest of the world were, so I assume they know what they are talking about.

It is in the best interest of a virus to cause as little illness as possible in the host indeed. Covid 19 is not bad at that, there is quite a good percentage of people with no symptims or only mild symptoms.
There is potential (and that is all, potential) risk with the virus going back and forth from species, because that forces it to mutate to adapt to the new host. And there is potential for it returning to the initial host, and the immune system will have to start all over again as it may have changed enough.
They have recognised it, and they are acting, so we should be ok. I am crossing my fingers, but Ivam not going to lose sleep over this one.

To a pp, we still cage our hens in the UK. Colony or enriched cages replaced the old barren battery cage system in 2012. On average a ‘colony’ cage holds 80 hens and has a screened off area for laying, a scratch mat and low perches. Hens don’t leave the cage until they go to slaughter.

Roughly 70% of soy crops are fed to cattle.

It really makes me despair of the entire human race. We bring all of this on ourselves by our barbaric treatment of animals, nature and the world we live in. We are just reaping what we sow...

They should close the borders in Denmark immediately for 2 weeks. If China had locked down at the beginning of Covid we wouldn't be in this situation. This mutation needs to be stopped in its tracks before spreading any further. Hopefully the powers that be will have learned some lessons from countries like New Zealand.

If offending countries haven’t learnt to deal with these outbreaks with immediate border closures...well then we’re absolutely fucked. And as someone said, it’s probably too late. You detect 12 cases, there’s going to be 100 at least.

The world is relying hugely on luck.

@Fittata You speak for many of us. But it needs to be nearly all of us. We are poisoning the well.

Almost everything needs to change, and it has to be us, not governments and not manufacturers and not anyone who still thinks in the old way and speaks about The Economy and trying to boost g.d.p by boosting debt to boost spending to boost maximum consumerism. What is not good for the planet and for everything on the planet, from animals to worms, is not good for any other living thing on the planet.

Here it’s ‘only’ minks (commercial farming).

What’s going to happen if zoonosis happens in domestic ‘companion’ animals or livestock - ie we transmit to, say, dogs who then reinfect us back with a different strain?

Extract below from article. S it sensationalist scaremongering or something ‘real’?

A study presented to the European Society of Clinical Microbiology and Infectious Diseases by scientists at the University of Guelph in Ontario, Canada, suggests that a large proportion of pet dogs and cats may already have caught Covid-19 from their owners.

The study, revealed in September, showed that in households where humans had caught Covid-19 and survived, the pets also had high levels of Covid-19 — as evidenced by antibodies in their blood.

Some 88 per cent of cats and 20 per cent of dogs examined for the study tested positive.

Similarly, a report in the journal Emerging Infectious Diseases says that researchers in Hong Kong who tested 50 cats from Covid-19 infected households found that six cats tested positive for it.

'Feline-to-human transmission is theoretically possible,' the researchers warned.

We now know from Denmark's experience with mink that the virus can learn to evolve and reinfect humans in a genetically altered state.

How long before regular infection of companion animals such as dogs and cats enables Covid-19 to learn whole new levels of terrifying abilities?

Daily Mail reporting just now;

Britain will close its borders with Denmark amid fears a Covid mutation spreading from mink to humans could derail the race to a vaccine.

The country was initially dropped from the UK's travel corridor list in the early hours of Thursday – but following emergency talks yesterday, ministers decided on the unprecedented step of blocking all arrivals from Denmark.

Makes sense, @Redolent - but Denmark really itself needs to shut its borders

Scottish Government Justice Minister tweeted this:
Working on measures to protect us from Coronavirus mutation found in minks in Denmark. This is not a sentence I ever expected to tweet - let alone at 1am on Sat morning!

Further details to be announced over course of the day but suffice to say situation being taken v seriously.
mobile.twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1324881016134262785

We already know it can pass to cats. That has been the case for months. If there was any significance there we'd already know about it.

I think you are scare mongering, Aridane, yes.

Viruses jump the species barrier all the time. That is not in itself necessarily disastrous. Viruses mutate all the time. Again that is not in itself disastrous. Generally they mutate to become less lethal. Effective viruses do not kill their hosts.

I'm very glad Denmark and the UK are taking this seriously, but the fact they are doing so does not necessarily mean they know anything we don't. It just means we have learned our lesson from covid.

Good that they’re moving to stop arrivals from Denmark, but as a pp said that measure will have limited impact without Denmark closing its own border.

I think the current issue is that Cluster 5 - whilst not deadlier or more spreadable - may be less sensitive to an attack from Covid-19 antibodies weakening the body's immune response against it. Hence a concern that if cluster 5 becomes widespread, it may not respond to a vaccine

I applaud Denmark’s pm treating it as a world issue and not a Danish one and about owing a responsibility to,the world.