Do all those who think we are entering lockdown because the Tories are incompetent...

[BertieBloopsMum]

... also think the same thing about Macron and Merkle?

Labour’s suggestion of locking down over half term (and extending the school holiday to 3 weeks) was a good one.

@Jason118

They will, it doesn't happen in a vacuum. German industry is getting worried and is urging Macron to relax his stance.

Errr, they're really not, unless you've seen stuff in Germany that I haven't?

This took me all of five seconds to find. There's plenty more where it came from. www.ft.com/content/e9706b10-b2d8-4911-9b91-350bc9f0996b

We are an island for goodness sake...how could the government get things so wrong to start with? it should have been easier for us at the very beginning to close our borders and do what New Zealand did.

Our government is beyond incompetent.

Handing out the track and trace to some random mate who has no experience and a woeful track record in managing companies and projects is a perfect example. The Cummings saga is another.

And we have the worse death toll in Europe.

Johnson can't plan, communicate or manage. All he can do is lie and bluster.

@Baaaahhhhh

Dido Harding – given two key Covid roles, against any evidence that she is competent or qualified for either. Also an active Conservative member of the HoL after being given the post by Dave Cameron (her friend).

£85k given to Neville Holt to support it during winter months. Neville Holt is a business that

• Only viable during summer months anyway – being an outdoor Opera company – so not out of profit during winter months anyway
• Has a 17 year old school boy listed as it’s only patron: Carl Ross, who is the son of the owner who is…
• David Ross, Carphone Warehouse owner, Tory doner and gifter of free holidays to Boris Johnson

Multi-million pound PPE contracts given to:

• A pest control company with no prior history in making or supplying PPE
• A confectionary wholesaler with no prior history in making or supplying PPE
• A private equity firm with no prior history in making or supplying anything at all
• A brand new company, set up by a Tory peer) who has no experience at all provided PPE. Awarded £122m contract, without tender.
• Clipper Logistics, owned by Tory doner. £1.3m. No tender process followed.
• Globus, owned by Tory doner David meller. £148m. No tender process followed.
• P14 Medical, owned by a Tory councillor. £120m. No tender process followed. Meanwhile, establish British firms with 10, 20, in one case 50+ years of PPE experience were all told they were not needed.

The current and ongoing suspension of the Public Contracts Regulations 2015 means that over 85% of contracts awarded for Covid are not subject to any public scrutiny.

Randox Testing “winning” the £133m contract to increase covid testing capacity. Awarded without tender. Randox also pays Tory MP Owen Paterson £100,000 per year so a clear conflict of interest and no transparency to demonstrate the contract was awarded fairly. Talking of conflicts of interest, two contracts given to Hanbury Strategy. A lobbying firm set up by Dominic Cummings – him of “don’t bother paying this £50k council tax” fame.

And more I would have forgotten about because it is too depressing....

I think the Tories are incompetent regardless.
It's embarrassing to be English right now.

Ah yes, the £200 a head party the Tory party held last week in which confidential slides were shown, giving a room of Tory supporters sight of what vaccine-related companies the Tory party planned to spend money on. Useful, if you're looking at where to invest your money next, huh...

@DdraigGoch This took me all of five seconds to find. There's plenty more where it came from.
Thanks for the link, unfortunately paywalled. However the gist I think is that European businesses would prefer a deal. Quelle surprise, we all want that, but that's not putting pressure on a Macron specifically as you suggest.

Not really. It's impossible to compare countries when it comes to "Coronavirus deaths". Because countries use different systems of recording and defining deaths due to coronavirus.

Which makes it convenient to argue that black is white, doesn't it ?

Except the whole premise of this thread is that you can compare the UK to (say France and Germany) in order to say "they're doing just as badly as us". How else are we supposed to answer your OP :

Do all those who think we are entering lockdown because the Tories are incompetent... ... also think the same thing about Macron and Merkel?

??????

So either you can compare countries. And the UK is doing shit.

Or you can't compare countries, and based on the UK results without comparison we are still doing shit.

Regarding excess deaths compared to other countries this could be down to demographics e.g we may have a higher proportion of people in the older age group, more densely populated, fewer hospital beds per person etc. I wish all the politicisation was set aside and everyone work together to tackle this. We are all in this whether we like it or not

Its not politicisation to point out some glaring issues with this Govt's response!
Fewer NHS beds, no social care plan and an obese/unhealthy population are all failures in Govt policy.... why are we the fattest in europe, who do the least amount of exercise?

Johnson has point blank refused to work with the devolved leaders or the opposition to find common ground.
He could have spent the summer working toward a Govt of national unity, get public health involved in testing, track and trace.... instead he went fucking camping & told us it would all be over by xmas!

We are an island, France and Germany were not last time I looked. Doris only lockdowned the first time because Macron told him lorries wouldnt be allowed into france if he didnt - will forgive him a lot for saving British lives.

Doris dithered - locked down too late, reopened too slowly and didnt follow the science. Garden centres and outdoor activities should never have been closed or reopened sooner. Doris undermined compliance by not sacking his puppet master. Doris has dithered again. Doris has let contracts to his incompetent chums, screwing the country twice over.

All this because he could not learn the lessons of history - protect your population and you protect your economy.

The stories ran down the NHS, they ran down Public Health England. The remnants have done a far better job than they are given credit for, giving their depleted state.

Doris and the stories have trashed the economy, killed off a large number of people and injured god knows how many more, are encouraging inter-generational infighting in the hope they can kill off even more of the old and vulnerable. Later it will be anyone who receives any state funding.

I dont blame Doris for a pandemic, just for handling it with toal incompetence. His puppet master wants to break down society - he's doing rather well at it.

We're an island and Germany and France have multiple land borders.

[quote Jason118]@DdraigGoch This took me all of five seconds to find. There's plenty more where it came from.
Thanks for the link, unfortunately paywalled. However the gist I think is that European businesses would prefer a deal. Quelle surprise, we all want that, but that's not putting pressure on a Macron specifically as you suggest. [/quote]
Weird, it wasn't paywalled for me and I'm not a subscriber. Must have been a bug.

@DianaT1969

We're an island and Germany and France have multiple land borders.

Exactly !!!! It's unfair to compare the UKs low rate with theirs, as being an island we obviously would have a much better grip on the virus.

Now it the UKs rate was higher than countries with multiple land borders, it would be a clear sign that something serious was amiss.

Oh. Dear.

@Imissmoominmama

Labour’s suggestion of locking down over half term (and extending the school holiday to 3 weeks) was a good one.

It was just plainly obvious to do that. To lockdown the week the kids go back is outrageously stupid when a half term circuit breaker was called for weeks ago.

I think that they are all in this together...

I don't think they would be rising at the rate they are, he has left things too late and allowed poor examples to go on largely without reprimand (e.g. Cummings etc). I do believe this is a very difficult thing to manage for anyone though, but more openness and honesty throughout would likely have helped to some extent.

Germany is effectively going into lockdown 2-4 weeks earlier than the UK has done, with cases and deaths significantly lower. That means that the impact of the German lockdown is likely to be higher, or at least that it will take less time to get to a manageable rate of cases. In addition, the German ‘lockdown’ allows all shops to remain open. Household mixing is still possible, you can meet with one other household in groups of up to ten people. Indeed you can go to someone else’s house. People are still continuing to go to the office to work as they have done all summer.

In addition to these differences, the economic situation is different. Here, a cafe or bar that has to shut because of the ‘lockdown’ will receive 75% of lost revenue. In addition to being able to furlough staff, at 100%, 50% or 25% reduced hours. So there is a lot less frustration about the situation because while clearly the situation is not at all good for afffected businesses and employees, it is perhaps not quite as dire as in the UK.

People just love blame rather than accept what realistically possible

I honestly think if the Tories gave everyone £2000 Labour would be saying it should be £2001

@rwalker

People just love blame rather than accept what realistically possible

I honestly think if the Tories gave everyone £2000 Labour would be saying it should be £2001

Labour called for the country to go into lockdown based on strong advice from SAGE, Boris refused, minister after minister said no

Meanwhile Wales will come out of a 2 week LD just as we are starting our 4 week one.

This failure of leadership is unforgivable given the mistakes made in March but to answer your specific point, Labour are supporting the lockdown.

We are an island, yes.

Not a self sufficient one though. Still need imports through the ports, tunnel & ferries.

This virus will not be eradicated in the UK

@thecatsatonthewall
rwalker
People just love blame rather than accept what realistically possible

I honestly think if the Tories gave everyone £2000 Labour would be saying it should be £2001
Labour called for the country to go into lockdown based on strong advice from SAGE, Boris refused, minister after minister said no

Meanwhile Wales will come out of a 2 week LD just as we are starting our 4 week one.

This failure of leadership is unforgivable given the mistakes made in March but to answer your specific point, Labour are supporting the lockdown.

Wales has said they don't know if there's has worked not too convinced 2 weeks myself due to incubation and being infectious totals over 14days .

Not everyone wants to lockdown or think thats it's the answer SAGE tend to look at health rather than heath and economy . You have to balance health and economy .

Not everyone wants to lockdown or think thats it's the answer SAGE tend to look at health rather than heath and economy . You have to balance health and economy

The two go hand in hand, who will go on a packed plane or a theatre, pub, cinema if they think they'll get ill?

LD might not be the answer but given Johnson has dithered & failed on trac an trace we have to have one.

Not everyone wants to lockdown or think thats it's the answer SAGE tend to look at health rather than heath and economy . You have to balance health and economy

Whitty is always clear on boundaries of SAGE and that’s why MPs / government has to decide based on both pressures. SAGE only advises on one side and don’t indicate otherwise. They are clear even if MPs sounded muddled yesterday when asking Whitty / Valance questions.

Track and trace would work a lot better if people co operated stop giving false details blocking 0330 number and government number that send text and answer blocked or private numbers .

We can blame any leadership all went want but one of the biggest failings is the general public not follow guidance.

did merkel give £13 billion to private companies for failed track and trace schemes?

did macron give millions to pest control companies to provide faulty ppe?

i missed this.

did they support rule-breaking if you're following your fatherly instincts?

was there an a level results scandal? a care home scandal? a cheltenham races debacle?

did their leaders close down pandemic preparedness groups? did their leaders attend cobra sessions on the pandemic?

of course around half term would have been a better time for a proper lockdown!

we have most deaths in europe and our economy is getting fucked.

the lengths people go to defend boris - unbelievable.