Do all those who think we are entering lockdown because the Tories are incompetent...

[BertieBloopsMum]

... also think the same thing about Macron and Merkle?

@ssd

The op loves Boris & Co, I've seen them on other threads.

Boris Bot?

@Baaaahhhhh - yes there is plenty of evidence of cronyism & corruption. Billions wasted.

I accept that the pandemic would have caused problems for any Leader & that worldwide everyone had made mistakes. My issues with this administration are the complete lack of attention to detail, of planning, clear communication & the complete reticence to admit mistakes.

At the weekend a major announcement was leaked late on Friday night, then briefed to favoured journalists & a Press Conference scheduled for 4pm, then 5pm & finally 6.30pm. This is no way to treat people living in fear for their livelihoods. The presentation slides were a car crash and finally it was announced that the furlough scheme which ended that day was to be extended. Far too late for those people already made redundant.

The furlough scheme returns to 80%, which the North West, Scotland & Wales had all been refused. Hard to square this with a levelling up agenda. Rather It only matters when it's the south.

And back in the summer, the Manchester lockdown was announced on Twitter at 10pm to be enforced on the following day, which was Eid.

And yet still people defend this government. I could go on.

@ssd

The op loves Boris & Co, I've seen them on other threads.

Like a Trump supporter then?

Generously, i could understand Bojo locking down late in March etc etc but now? unforgivable, he was advised by SAGE to do so 6 weeks ago but went for Tiers instead but its our tears not his that will be shed.

Just going on numbers ... deaths per 1,000,000

UK: 689
France: 573
Germany: 128

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

speaks volumes, doesn't it ?

Thanks for the sobering summary @luckylavender.

How anyone can still think these clowns are doing a good job is beyond me.

@SerendipityJane

Just going on numbers ... deaths per 1,000,000

UK: 689
France: 573
Germany: 128

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

speaks volumes, doesn't it ?

Not really. It's impossible to compare countries when it comes to "Coronavirus deaths". Because countries use different systems of recording and defining deaths due to coronavirus.

It's more accurate to compare excess deaths, although again it's a bit of a blunt instrument.

@ssd

The op loves Boris & Co, I've seen them on other threads.

Well I think "love" would be exaggerating it but I don't see them as wholly culpable for the new lockdown. Being as nearly every other country in Europe is currently entering into their own lockdown.

@WineGummyBear

Things i blame Boris for:

• rubbish communications with other leaders of devolved nations leading to a confusing and incoherent approach

• poor compliance with rules directly attributable to the Cummings debacle. (I'm not even angry DC about breaking the rules. It's the lying which undermined ALL of the public health messaging. Whitty and Valance must have been horrified). This damage cannot be undone and will definitely be a factor in our stats

• NHS in a very poor state to withstand a pandemic due to a decade of Tory underfunding

• the certain knowledge that our pandemic experience is about to become a whole lot more painful when we have Brexit chaos - coming soon

Things i don't blame Boris for:

• second lockdown (most countries have one)

• the timing of the lockdowns- too many variables, no consensus between scientists, economic factors

Things i have not decided whether or not to blame Boris:

• T&T. Do other countries have better ones?

Can't argue with any of that.

@BertieBloopsMum - it's not just lockdown though is it? As you say everyone is doing it. They are totally incompetent.

It's more accurate to compare excess deaths, although again it's a bit of a blunt instrument

Where the UK is top of the pile.

@ThousandsAreSailing

BertieBloopsMum Why would the question only be about lock down? How ridiculous. Do you know the reason to lock down is to save lives? Is that the only way you can try to prove our government is not incompetent by looking at one stage and not the final result?

Because of all the people I see saying either "We should have locked down earlier!" or "We shouldn't be having to lock down!" and blaming the govt for what they think is blindingly obvious, whichever side they're on. When every other European govt, more or less, is currently doing the same thing as us.

Just interesting to see that people blaming our lockdown on Tory incompetence often come up with other reasons/rationalisations for other countries following exactly the same policy.

@jasjas1973

It's more accurate to compare excess deaths, although again it's a bit of a blunt instrument

Where the UK is top of the pile.

No, we're not. Not in Europe, not in the world.

Perhaps not UK but health is devolved so a good comparison.

www.newscientist.com/article/2256986-england-wales-had-most-excess-deaths-in-europes-covid-19-first-wave/

@BertieBloopsMum - do you genuinely believe locking down now is exactly the same thing as locking down a few weeks ago?! With the benefit of seeing what was happening in Belgium and France, and even beginning to happen in Germany, why did Johnson feel the need to wait until now to do what was obviously coming? Why wait until after other countries have already done it? Why do you think locking down now for what is almost certain to be more than 4 weeks, is better than locking down sooner? It’s a brave/foolish man who appears to make the same mistake twice.

All that said, whilst it was all very predictable, I can see that with opinion so widely divided within his own party, it was inevitable he would wait until now and then cave.

luckylavendar Where is the evidence? You can't just say it's everywhere without sharing that knowledge.

As pps said upthread, other leaders took this seriously. Macron apologised. Our PM told us "a stitch in time saves nine".

Meanwhile, even Boris Johnson's Spitting Image puppet is more sincere and decisive than the real life puppet.

Merkel and Macron both look positively statesmanlike in comparison. I'm sure no German or French person would rather have Boris Johnson in charge. If he is.

Excess deaths have been significantly higher in the UK than in France or Germany.

Countries can make the official Covid-19 deaths seem lower by not testing but there is no hiding from the figures for excess deaths.

Regarding excess deaths compared to other countries this could be down to demographics e.g we may have a higher proportion of people in the older age group, more densely populated, fewer hospital beds per person etc. I wish all the politicisation was set aside and everyone work together to tackle this. We are all in this whether we like it or not.

@Baaaahhhhh - the fact that you are on here tells me that you have the same access to information as the rest of us. Look it up, it won't take long.

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo

None of those countries are islands. Lets compare ourselves to Taiwan or New Zealand, also islands. Hmm, yeah I blame the corrupt idiots.

I don't know how many times I need to repeat this: We are not at all comparable to New Zealand! New Zealand is sparsely populated and thousands of miles away from its nearest neighbour. We on the other hand are densely populated and have numerous train, ferry and air links to Europe.

@Dustballs

Not quite the same subject - but France and Germany won't have Brexit to cope with on top of Covid.

I wonder whether the financial strain of Brexit will become apparent in how the UK copes with Covid ...

They will, it doesn't happen in a vacuum. German industry is getting worried and is urging Macron to relax his stance.

They will, it doesn't happen in a vacuum. German industry is getting worried and is urging Macron to relax his stance.

Errr, they're really not, unless you've seen stuff in Germany that I haven't?

Living in Melbourne under lockdown watching the Tour de France on TV with all the crowds while France had more cases than us did seem a little foolish.