Do all those who think we are entering lockdown because the Tories are incompetent...

[BertieBloopsMum]

... also think the same thing about Macron and Merkle?

[WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo]

None of those countries are islands. Lets compare ourselves to Taiwan or New Zealand, also islands. Hmm, yeah I blame the corrupt idiots.

[cologne4711]

I think they are incompetent but I don't think we'd have a largely different situation now with a competent government.

[cologne4711]

(yes New Zealand and Australia have little or no covid but they've killed their economies too, it's not all roses, though better than here, obvs)

[Dustballs]

Not quite the same subject - but France and Germany won't have Brexit to cope with on top of Covid.

I wonder whether the financial strain of Brexit will become apparent in how the UK copes with Covid ...

[JamieLeeCurtains]

Johnson's just fobbed off Mel Stride as well. Pitiful.

[JamieLeeCurtains]

Now Johnson cannot answer a question from one of his own MPs about 'why not takeaway beer?'

Useless on BAME susceptibility as well.

[BertieBloopsMum]

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo

None of those countries are islands. Lets compare ourselves to Taiwan or New Zealand, also islands. Hmm, yeah I blame the corrupt idiots.

So you think that the UK should just shut its borders, and stay like that for who knows how long?

[JamieLeeCurtains]

Johnson has turned into a Tory Bot without the charm.

Get the R down Get the R down crisis crisis Get the R down Government website Dido Dido testing testing numbers crisis nanny crisis

[BertieBloopsMum]

@JamieLeeCurtains

Now Johnson cannot answer a question from one of his own MPs about 'why not takeaway beer?'

Useless on BAME susceptibility as well.

Seems pretty obvious to me - in towns, you'd get large crowds buying takeaway beer and standing around drinking it.

[Qasd]

Germany are keeping shops open and most importantly for most people allowing gatherings of up to ten people from two different households. That isn’t allowed under tier one in the U.K. but accept this sort of thing is a bit “what do you miss most” if it’s the gym such a rule doesn’t help if it’s missing family it does. Shops being open will mean the hit to pre Christmas retail will not be as big too!

Generally as well Germany locked down for a shorter time last time and I would have a greater faith theirs will be short whereas ours will drag on. They do seem generally better at track and trace than us which has helped (there number per 100,000 are less than ours)

[JamieLeeCurtains]

So you think that the UK should just shut its borders

Wasn't that's what Priti Patel said the government was doing ages ago?

[JamieLeeCurtains]

Seems pretty obvious to me - in towns, you'd get large crowds buying takeaway beer and standing around drinking it

Johnson didn't say that though. He was incoherent. Live in Parliament. During a national crisis.

[BefuddledPerson]

So you think that the UK should just shut its borders, and stay like that for who knows how long? hmm

Our borders are technically not shut, but UK citizens are advised against travelling, and tourists don't want to come here.

I don't understand who looks at NZ and thinks 'they've really fucked up'.

[herecomesthsun]

We could have had many fewer deaths with a more rapid response. The delays could have cost 20,000 lives last time. (See Philadelphia and St. Louis in 1918, it's well known that a swift response can save a lot of lives in a pandemic)

We have had one of the worst death tolls in the world.

So yeah, more incompetent than Merkel.

And doesn't listen to his own scientists (a September lockdown would have been more effective) and keeps muddling and fudging and backtracking.

Plus corruption and employing incompetent cronies.

Plus are they really going ahead with a no deal Brexit?

So it's a huge dilemma for all politicians, but made worse by Boris & co in their own inimitable way.

[nibdedibble]

There’s no getting away from the fact that locking down when advised and not five weeks later would have been less bad.

I don’t know what Macron and Merkel were advised and when.

I do know that numbers got bad more quickly than supposed but that doesn’t make it less true that Boris ignored advised and now more people will die.

[MarshaBradyo]

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo

None of those countries are islands. Lets compare ourselves to Taiwan or New Zealand, also islands. Hmm, yeah I blame the corrupt idiots.

Taiwan acted early and well and used central systems put in place after SARS. Plus it was one of the few countries that did not adhere to the WHO re travel from China.

However NZ lockdown at around same date as us and we’re so much earlier on curve. At around 105 cases. We were very high on same date. Same as Europe.

Not just about island but geographic location and how much of an international hub. What date would we have had to do the same to be comparable?

[sashagabadon]

It’s all inevitable no matter what is done and who is in charge. A virus will do it’s thing.
In fact we were all told this back in March, it would’ve a series of lock downs as the virus worked it’s way through the population. Valance said 60% of us would catch it at some point but for the majority it would be a mild illness. Not sure what percentage we are at now, would be interesting to know

[Dongdingdong]

Nope. All parties would have been equally clueless. To be fair to all of them, it’s a completely unprecedented situation.

[MarshaBradyo]

@sashagabadon

It’s all inevitable no matter what is done and who is in charge. A virus will do it’s thing.
In fact we were all told this back in March, it would’ve a series of lock downs as the virus worked it’s way through the population. Valance said 60% of us would catch it at some point but for the majority it would be a mild illness. Not sure what percentage we are at now, would be interesting to know

Merkel said the same early on re percentage

[JamieLeeCurtains]

I'm concerned that Johnson was so weak and warbling on the impact of Covid-19 on the BAME community.

But then he isn't known for his sensitivities around race, ethnicity and language.

extra.ie/2020/06/08/news/world-news/boris-johnson-black-lives-matter

[Hesnotlocal]

I don't entirely blame Boris for the situation we are in now. But I do blame him (and his Government) for acting too late on nearly every occasion and making things far worse than they could have been.

We had one big advantage over France/Italy etc as the virus reached us later so we could see what was happening elsewhere and learn from that. We could have been working on plans and test/trace processes weeks before things got really bad. With this second lockdown we missed the chance to coincide with half term when we could gave had a tighter lockdown (including schools etc) to really make a difference. After the chaos of last year's cancelled exams the Government have not taken the opportunity to plan for how to assess pupils and ensure that those who have missed schooling due to isolation/illness etc are not disadvantaged. Instead they will almost inevitably bury their heads in the sand and insist exams will go ahead- until they don't and we have no plan B.

[BiggerBoat1]

We would have had a pandemic whoever was in charge. We would probably also have had a second wave.

However, we may not have had patients dumped back into care homes with no testing, a woeful track and trace system overseen by someone with a track-history of failure, lockdowns weeks after the scientists advised, an "advisor" who broke lockdown rules and lied on national TV yet somehow remains central to the Government's strategy making, a total fiasco over GCSE and A Level results, a stubborn refusal to feed our most vulnerable children over the holidays, 16,000 positive tests not recorded because they didn't fit on the spreadsheet and in the middle of it all a nice little Bill which allows us to break international law rather than stick by a Brexit deal which should never have been agreed to.

Yes, I'd say this Government is incompetent!

[herecomesthsun]

It’s all inevitable no matter what is done and who is in charge.

Well, no.

"In 2007, a study in the Journal of the American Medical Association analyzed health data from the U.S. census that experienced the 1918 pandemic, and charted the death rates of 43 U.S. cities. That same year, two studies published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences sought to understand how responses influenced the disease’s spread in different cities. By comparing fatality rates, timing, and public health interventions, they found death rates were around 50 percent lower in cities that implemented preventative measures early on, versus those that did so late or not at all. The most effective efforts had simultaneously closed schools, churches, and theaters, and banned public gatherings. This would allow time for vaccine development (though a flu vaccine was not used until the 1940s) and lessened the strain on health care systems."

So different approaches can make a big difference to outcome.

www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/

[MummyPop00]

Gov are hedging their bets all things considered I think. We don’t have enough compliance for frequent lockdowns or indeed T&T. It’s ok being NZ if there is definitely going to be a decent vaccine. If not, and this rumbles on we’re suddenly in a better position than them as more of our population will have already had it.

[nnnnumpty]

Maybe place the blame on good old general public , you know the ones that don't follow the rules , constantly bend the rules , think they are exempt ? The people that it's all a big conspiracy and Covid doesn't exist ? People that think they can do whatever they want and sod anyone else ?