Do all those who think we are entering lockdown because the Tories are incompetent...

[BertieBloopsMum]

... also think the same thing about Macron and Merkle?

[alreadytaken]

This site is overrun by students amusing themself in lockdown by winding people up, spadbots, even a russian spadbot outed on one thread. I need to see proof these are real people or proof from someone I know to be independent of track and trace before I'd believe anything from "people" on mumsnet.

[Dustballs]

I don't trust the Tories one jot. I think we all gave them a chance - but they responded with insults to our intelligence and lies.

I've lost faith in the government. I don't trust a word that they say anymore and am sure many many many others feel the same.

Yes - we are entering this lockdown because of their incompetence and lack of leadership. The lockdown will also fail as a result of those things.

[rwalker]

There are NUMEROUS threads on here where people admitted they give false details and wrong telephone numbers
.I know 4 people who do and also I must live in a very exclusive area as our local pub has had donold trump,churchill , elivs and gemma collins in according to there trace and trace.

[alreadytaken]

Track and trace has consistently failed from the beginning. I'd want to see prove of people giving false details before I believed anything from that set of incompetents. Strangely the bits managed by the remnants of the NHS and by PHE do much better. The devolved administrations also do better.

It is about leadership.

[Jason118]

The clue is in the word leadership - a good leadership with consistently applied standards will create a following. Leadership attempted by liars and their acolytes is doomed to failure. If the public do not follow, then it is by definition, a failure of leadership.

[rwalker]

@thecatsatonthewall
rwalker
Track and trace would work a lot better if people co operated stop giving false details blocking 0330 number and government number that send text and answer blocked or private numbers .

We can blame any leadership all went want but one of the biggest failings is the general public not follow guidance.
Lol! nothing to do with launching TnT months after most countries, with a failed app and getting results out days late?

In a crisis, people look to their leaders, we haven't got any worthy of the name, they've failed us at every opportunity.

Doesn't matter how quick or late track and trace is you will never trace them off a false name and number. Struggling to see the effectiveness of the app when only 16% off the population prepared to download and use it .Again these two things are down to the public not the leadership.

[thecatsatonthewall]

@rwalker

Track and trace would work a lot better if people co operated stop giving false details blocking 0330 number and government number that send text and answer blocked or private numbers .

We can blame any leadership all went want but one of the biggest failings is the general public not follow guidance.

Lol! nothing to do with launching TnT months after most countries, with a failed app and getting results out days late?

In a crisis, people look to their leaders, we haven't got any worthy of the name, they've failed us at every opportunity.

[alreadytaken]

While we are on the topic of this government's incompetence. Vitamin D is a promising looking treatment for covid-19. But the government has consistently refused to fund a trial in this country and without that it is difficult for doctors to use it. Instead it has, reluctantly, funded a trial of vitamin D as a preventive, one that cant report until June next year.

So it is pretending to do something while in reality not doing something important that could potentially save lives and therefore save the economy.

Write to your MP and ask them why. www.theyworkforyou.com/

More importantly - tell all your friends, family, acquaintances on social media about these studies

papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3690902

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7456194/

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0239252#pone-0239252-g002

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.05.20206706v1

[Helmetbymidnight]

did merkel give £13 billion to private companies for failed track and trace schemes?

did macron give millions to pest control companies to provide faulty ppe?

i missed this.

did they support rule-breaking if you're following your fatherly instincts?

was there an a level results scandal? a care home scandal? a cheltenham races debacle?

did their leaders close down pandemic preparedness groups? did their leaders attend cobra sessions on the pandemic?

of course around half term would have been a better time for a proper lockdown!

we have most deaths in europe and our economy is getting fucked.

the lengths people go to defend boris - unbelievable.

[rwalker]

Track and trace would work a lot better if people co operated stop giving false details blocking 0330 number and government number that send text and answer blocked or private numbers .

We can blame any leadership all went want but one of the biggest failings is the general public not follow guidance.

[MarshaBradyo]

Not everyone wants to lockdown or think thats it's the answer SAGE tend to look at health rather than heath and economy . You have to balance health and economy

Whitty is always clear on boundaries of SAGE and that’s why MPs / government has to decide based on both pressures. SAGE only advises on one side and don’t indicate otherwise. They are clear even if MPs sounded muddled yesterday when asking Whitty / Valance questions.

[thecatsatonthewall]

Not everyone wants to lockdown or think thats it's the answer SAGE tend to look at health rather than heath and economy . You have to balance health and economy

The two go hand in hand, who will go on a packed plane or a theatre, pub, cinema if they think they'll get ill?

LD might not be the answer but given Johnson has dithered & failed on trac an trace we have to have one.

[rwalker]

@thecatsatonthewall
rwalker
People just love blame rather than accept what realistically possible

I honestly think if the Tories gave everyone £2000 Labour would be saying it should be £2001
Labour called for the country to go into lockdown based on strong advice from SAGE, Boris refused, minister after minister said no

Meanwhile Wales will come out of a 2 week LD just as we are starting our 4 week one.

This failure of leadership is unforgivable given the mistakes made in March but to answer your specific point, Labour are supporting the lockdown.

Wales has said they don't know if there's has worked not too convinced 2 weeks myself due to incubation and being infectious totals over 14days .

Not everyone wants to lockdown or think thats it's the answer SAGE tend to look at health rather than heath and economy . You have to balance health and economy .

[MummyPop00]

We are an island, yes.

Not a self sufficient one though. Still need imports through the ports, tunnel & ferries.

This virus will not be eradicated in the UK

[thecatsatonthewall]

@rwalker

People just love blame rather than accept what realistically possible

I honestly think if the Tories gave everyone £2000 Labour would be saying it should be £2001

Labour called for the country to go into lockdown based on strong advice from SAGE, Boris refused, minister after minister said no

Meanwhile Wales will come out of a 2 week LD just as we are starting our 4 week one.

This failure of leadership is unforgivable given the mistakes made in March but to answer your specific point, Labour are supporting the lockdown.

[rwalker]

People just love blame rather than accept what realistically possible

I honestly think if the Tories gave everyone £2000 Labour would be saying it should be £2001

[Hahabonk]

Germany is effectively going into lockdown 2-4 weeks earlier than the UK has done, with cases and deaths significantly lower. That means that the impact of the German lockdown is likely to be higher, or at least that it will take less time to get to a manageable rate of cases. In addition, the German ‘lockdown’ allows all shops to remain open. Household mixing is still possible, you can meet with one other household in groups of up to ten people. Indeed you can go to someone else’s house. People are still continuing to go to the office to work as they have done all summer.

In addition to these differences, the economic situation is different. Here, a cafe or bar that has to shut because of the ‘lockdown’ will receive 75% of lost revenue. In addition to being able to furlough staff, at 100%, 50% or 25% reduced hours. So there is a lot less frustration about the situation because while clearly the situation is not at all good for afffected businesses and employees, it is perhaps not quite as dire as in the UK.

[HappyDinosaur]

I don't think they would be rising at the rate they are, he has left things too late and allowed poor examples to go on largely without reprimand (e.g. Cummings etc). I do believe this is a very difficult thing to manage for anyone though, but more openness and honesty throughout would likely have helped to some extent.

[Mimishimi]

I think that they are all in this together...

[annabel85]

@Imissmoominmama

Labour’s suggestion of locking down over half term (and extending the school holiday to 3 weeks) was a good one.

It was just plainly obvious to do that. To lockdown the week the kids go back is outrageously stupid when a half term circuit breaker was called for weeks ago.

[SerendipityJane]

@DianaT1969

We're an island and Germany and France have multiple land borders.

Exactly !!!! It's unfair to compare the UKs low rate with theirs, as being an island we obviously would have a much better grip on the virus.

Now it the UKs rate was higher than countries with multiple land borders, it would be a clear sign that something serious was amiss.

Oh. Dear.

[DdraigGoch]

[quote Jason118]@DdraigGoch This took me all of five seconds to find. There's plenty more where it came from.
Thanks for the link, unfortunately paywalled. However the gist I think is that European businesses would prefer a deal. Quelle surprise, we all want that, but that's not putting pressure on a Macron specifically as you suggest. [/quote]
Weird, it wasn't paywalled for me and I'm not a subscriber. Must have been a bug.

[DianaT1969]

We're an island and Germany and France have multiple land borders.

[alreadytaken]

We are an island, France and Germany were not last time I looked. Doris only lockdowned the first time because Macron told him lorries wouldnt be allowed into france if he didnt - will forgive him a lot for saving British lives.

Doris dithered - locked down too late, reopened too slowly and didnt follow the science. Garden centres and outdoor activities should never have been closed or reopened sooner. Doris undermined compliance by not sacking his puppet master. Doris has dithered again. Doris has let contracts to his incompetent chums, screwing the country twice over.

All this because he could not learn the lessons of history - protect your population and you protect your economy.

The stories ran down the NHS, they ran down Public Health England. The remnants have done a far better job than they are given credit for, giving their depleted state.

Doris and the stories have trashed the economy, killed off a large number of people and injured god knows how many more, are encouraging inter-generational infighting in the hope they can kill off even more of the old and vulnerable. Later it will be anyone who receives any state funding.

I dont blame Doris for a pandemic, just for handling it with toal incompetence. His puppet master wants to break down society - he's doing rather well at it.

[jasjas1973]

Regarding excess deaths compared to other countries this could be down to demographics e.g we may have a higher proportion of people in the older age group, more densely populated, fewer hospital beds per person etc. I wish all the politicisation was set aside and everyone work together to tackle this. We are all in this whether we like it or not

Its not politicisation to point out some glaring issues with this Govt's response!
Fewer NHS beds, no social care plan and an obese/unhealthy population are all failures in Govt policy.... why are we the fattest in europe, who do the least amount of exercise?

Johnson has point blank refused to work with the devolved leaders or the opposition to find common ground.
He could have spent the summer working toward a Govt of national unity, get public health involved in testing, track and trace.... instead he went fucking camping & told us it would all be over by xmas!