How can anyone say schools/ unis should shut ???

[lu00]

I don’t know how to explain it properly but everyone posting on here on previous threads saying ‘#closetheschools’ who is an adult is posting from their home that they chose, in the life that they were able to create or themselves. You all had the freedom to do that, to be who you want to be, live how you want to live. You met your lifelong friends, met your partners, fell in love, studied, picked careers, whatever.

When you argue to close the universities and schools, what you have to see is that you are asking to take that away from us. These are our developmental years and we’re not going to get the chance to make anything of our lives !!!

Forced isolation at 18, in your parents house is different to forced isolation at 45 surrounded by your family, in your home (I’m aware not all adults have this, but the vast vast majority of Mumsnetters do) Working from home is different to studying from home, because at work, you’re goal is to do that work and if you can get that task done from home then so be it, you’ll still get your wage. But studying online when your chance at a future is being taken away is a pointless exercise, and it’s depressing.

I don’t know how anyone can expect this of us ?? You ALL got your youths. You ALL got your childhoods. You ALL got your twenties.

Don’t ask this of us, please. We can’t take it.

I am a teacher in a secondary (London) where have had no post I’ve cases in pupils or teachers. A tiny handful have isolated for testing or quarantine but no closures- or anything remotely like it. No reason for blanket closure - ridiculous notion.

Yep, in Australia Victoria state had a strict lockdown inc schools and have got the cases down low enough to reopen everything.

Because if this lockdown doesn’t get cases down to low enough figures then what do we do....have nothing open apart from schools until a vaccine is up and running? Fine if that’s Xmas, but what if it is 12 months or longer? The country will be bankrupt and most businesses will have gone bust.

Or we have an ultra strict lockdown for 2 months, cases down to near zero, no flights, etc allowed in or out even after we come out of lockdown and be shit hot at track and trace. NZ have done it, Australia, China.

Op,
From your posts you seem like a smart, kind individual, who is just having a rough time of it and who like most people, is struggling with the idea of another lockdown. And that’s OK, you’re entitled to feel annoyed and upset about it. There are very few people out there who are enjoying this trust me.

However, there are ‘young’ people out there including those you mentioned at 45 years old (which I know feels old to you, but it really isn’t) who are at risk of dying from this virus. 45 year olds with partners and children who love and need them.

You were locked away like the rest of the population for around 3 months last time and you might be asked to lock down again for around a month, maybe it won’t even be a full lockdown for you. That’s not a life ruining amount of time in the grand scheme of things...it’s a piss off and an inconvenience, but for some people it’s there difference between life and death. Every 18 year old in the world was in the same boat.

My sibling’s child passed away this year. They were 18. They didn’t get their life full stop. When all this is over, they won’t be here to meet a partner, get married or have children. They never stood a chance. Now that’s unfair.

If we don’t lockdown then there will be more people who don’t get a second chance after this is over. You need to step back, take a deep breath and look at the bigger picture.

The pandemic is here. We can’t make it go away. We have to deal with it and nobody should be prioritised over anyone else no matter their life stage, not least because this virus doesn’t work like that anyway.

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants come off it, majority of people arnt even ill!!

We Track and trace when the numbers were low? Didn't work v well did it!!

What makes you think I don’t have worries too.

Because your Op is about less-important things like meeting friends.

@PlanDeRaccordement

"The schools are operating safely with social distancing"

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I needed a laugh.

Nonsense.

@Flyonawalk

OP I agree with you 100%. Two of my children are currently at university, and they and you deserve to make the most of the experience.

I am not in favour of lockdown and I think it is monstrously unfair to your age group. The country should balance the needs of those who have lived most of their lives against those with their whole lives ahead of them.

May I suggest that you post your thread on the Higher Education board of Mumsnet? You will find kinder comments from lots of parents with student children.

I agree with all of that, just as I agree with and understand the OP.

The Coronavirus section can be as much of a bear pit as the AIBU section. Not for anyone who is hoping for an understanding or sympathetic ear. Sometimes you may get one, but it really is pot luck.

At the moment, in the light of yesterday's announcements, the Covid and Lockdown Police have resurfaced and are swarming round both sections.

Post anew in Higher Education. See what happens. It may well go better, but here you have attracted far too many of those who are just totally determined to stick the boot in.

The young will hate the old because of this.

Not because they are selfish, but because of sanctimonious hectoring from the middle aged and comfortably off.

"The schools are operating safely with social distancing”

This is really not true. At all.

@Ihatemyseleffordoingthis

The young will hate the old because of this.

Not because they are selfish, but because of sanctimonious hectoring from the middle aged and comfortably off.

Yes, and that seems to be what is happening on this thread.

@MushMonster - yes I am working in the field I read my degree in - but whether I was or not, I don’t feel my “developmental years” we’re down to my education or my work. I feel really became my “self” and grew up in my late twenties and thirties.

I obviously accept not everyone feels as I do but for me I really thought uni was going to make me the adult I was to become and it definitely didn’t. Loved it. Loved school. But as a woman in her forties I don’t give them as much credit for the shaping of my character as my 19 year old self would have.

@diggadoo and how long should they be closed for?

These new restrictions may lower the rates

Well, not exactly your character, but surely it affected the jobs you got, the places you worked, who you met, where you lived, what you could afford (including wedding, children, house), your chances of promotion.
So it got you the kick start in live?

I am tier 2 - and my kids schools have had NO closures

So where we are it isn't the schools driving the infections

I own a good deal of my life to my hard studying years! And I got the idea that OP has his mind on that, on the job-life prospects that the degree will bring.

@Remmy123

I am tier 2 - and my kids schools have had NO closures

So where we are it isn't the schools driving the infections

"The school did not close" is not the same as there is no infection going around in that school. Asymptomatic children get it in school and bring home to parents and grandparents who get visibly ill. Is it that difficult to understand? Random testing done by ONS tells us that currently the infection rate of secondary school children is highest among all age groups ( except for uni students) and grows fastest. It stands at about 2%. So a typical secondary school of 1500 children will have 30 infected children going there tomorrow.

I am 100% with you on this OP - I have 3 kids - 23, 18 and 14 - my 14 yr old has said that she cannot cope with being off school again - she had a very productive lockdown - she redecorated her room, we cooked, we went out cycling and walking - she started off doing schoolwork regularly but it tapered off later because she is a face-to-face learner and thrives on social situations - she has loved being back at school and is doing well. There are kids on our estate now involved in county lines activity that took off during lockdown and I believe that most kids need to be in a structured environment with their peer group to get through this whole debacle. I am again rowing with a close friend who is a teacher - of course, clinically vulnerable school and university staff should not be required to work during this pandemic and schools need more PPE and better protocols in place (i.e temperature checks at the beginning of each lesson etc)

There are many public facing keyworker roles that are absolutely essential and teaching is one of them - Prison staff, Police Officers, Supermarket Workers, Healthcare staff are all required to do their bit at the moment and I believe teachers have a vital role in contributing to positive outcomes for young people especially in the current climate.

I speak from quite a bit of life experience over the past year and am very passionate that teachers should be in the classroom and kids at school - I am someone who has tested positive twice for Covid (once in April and then just 3 weeks ago) - I was poorly the first time and asymptomatic the second. My oldest child has been remanded at 3 different prisons since last October following an explosives offence that he has recently been acquitted of - he has suspected schizophrenia. My second attained A*AA in her A levels this year and is currently working - my youngest is still at school. I work in a carehome for residents with complex dementia - we lost 30 people to Covid.

@NotQuiteHere you wouid think that but none of the staff have tested positive either. This is at nursery, primary and secondary.

None of my friends / people I know from those schools either

Yes, I see what you’re saying, it makes sense. My path of education probably had less impact on my life than my marriage for example but what you say is logical.

I can see how frustrating it is for young people. But - I (and I know it’s no comfort really when someone 20 odd years older says this) - things always feel more catastrophic than they are and youth really magnifies this. With history as a backdrop, this lockdown and this pandemic are not the worst things to have happened to a generation. It’s not fun, and it’s likely to make one feel anxious and that’s valid but.... it’s doable. Shit. But doable.

I see your point too. But as you say, when you are young and in uni, finishing that degree is a huge thing. From the student point of view it is a huge issue, I cannot see my 20 year old self taking things as calmly as my 40 plus is taking them.

@MonkeyBidness

Yes, I see what you’re saying, it makes sense. My path of education probably had less impact on my life than my marriage for example but what you say is logical.

I can see how frustrating it is for young people. But - I (and I know it’s no comfort really when someone 20 odd years older says this) - things always feel more catastrophic than they are and youth really magnifies this. With history as a backdrop, this lockdown and this pandemic are not the worst things to have happened to a generation. It’s not fun, and it’s likely to make one feel anxious and that’s valid but.... it’s doable. Shit. But doable.

I find posts like this so condescending, it almost seems as if you believe young people dont have any real problems and they just need to suck it up. Im in my final year of a biology degree while working in a key worker role to make ends meet (not every student gets support from their parents, even if they are young).

I haven't had a single lab this year, and almost certainly wont for the rest of my degree. Therefore i wont have the skills neccessary to pursue a master or research career in the field that i so badly wanted and im paying £9250 for the privilege. There's no hope of any decent post grad employment, so i am lucky to have my underpaid, undervalued, stressful job i guess.

I live in a house share with strangers as thats all i can afford and so now cant see anyone i know except from outside 2m apart. To top it all of my partner is not British and we've got the threat of a no deal Brexit over our heads. So please recognise that young people are not just catastrophising and for some of us closing universities to in person teaching will effect our career chances for ever. I will never get another chabce to do a funded degree and therefore will never get the chance to develop the skills i need for a career in the sciences.

@user1471588124 universities and further education centres should adjust their teaching to the circumstances. So they should take the time to teach you the lab skills you need for masters or PhDs.
And for employment, the same.
I am a lab manager and I always try to spend the time showing the ropes to new employees, and if I knew someone missed lab practices, I would make more effort. We may see more apprenticeships sprouting around after this, to make up for the gap.
Best luck with that

[quote MushMonster]@user1471588124 universities and further education centres should adjust their teaching to the circumstances. So they should take the time to teach you the lab skills you need for masters or PhDs.
And for employment, the same.
I am a lab manager and I always try to spend the time showing the ropes to new employees, and if I knew someone missed lab practices, I would make more effort. We may see more apprenticeships sprouting around after this, to make up for the gap.
Best luck with that [/quote]
Unfortunately with the best will in the world you can not replace the experience of conducting an idependent lab based project that is supposed to take 6 months eith a few demonstrations at the start of a masters. You have to learn how to plan and develop experiments, experience what happens when things dont go to plan and do all the associated data analysis. At my russel group university rhis has all been replaced with literature reviews.

I get its a shit situation and theres nothing to be done but i just wish people would recognise online learning isnt the same as in person at university, especially for practical subjects and life chances will be impacted long term. Never mind what this means for the immediate future of non- covid scientif research when many current scientists are planning to leave the sector and young people just aren't going to be there to replace them.

However, I would rather we have a hugely restricted life for longer and schools stay open.

Me too.

Health and Education must be priorities! And I'm willing to make whatever sacrifices are required!