How can anyone say schools/ unis should shut ???

[lu00]

I don’t know how to explain it properly but everyone posting on here on previous threads saying ‘#closetheschools’ who is an adult is posting from their home that they chose, in the life that they were able to create or themselves. You all had the freedom to do that, to be who you want to be, live how you want to live. You met your lifelong friends, met your partners, fell in love, studied, picked careers, whatever.

When you argue to close the universities and schools, what you have to see is that you are asking to take that away from us. These are our developmental years and we’re not going to get the chance to make anything of our lives !!!

Forced isolation at 18, in your parents house is different to forced isolation at 45 surrounded by your family, in your home (I’m aware not all adults have this, but the vast vast majority of Mumsnetters do) Working from home is different to studying from home, because at work, you’re goal is to do that work and if you can get that task done from home then so be it, you’ll still get your wage. But studying online when your chance at a future is being taken away is a pointless exercise, and it’s depressing.

I don’t know how anyone can expect this of us ?? You ALL got your youths. You ALL got your childhoods. You ALL got your twenties.

Don’t ask this of us, please. We can’t take it.

You do realise that the majority of people on here who spent lockdown surrounded by our families reminiscing on the life were supposedly trying to steal from you had to home educate and support those kids kept out of education? Had to financially support older kids who might otherwise have left home. Have had to choose between childcare or work? Have had to sacrifice those freedoms and seeing our own parents and older children?

Were talking about a few months - even a year - of restrictions where we ALL have to make sacrifices.

You think you're the only ones who didn't get to have fun, have sex, make friends, get new jobs, travel, grow? Then you seriously need to do some growing up. Perhaps use the next month to reflect on how life is not all about you and your experiences.

Partners, study, travel, jobs - they'll still be there when we've got through this. And some of them will be dependent on us getting through this.

You think you have the Monopoly on missing out? The lederly who have died on care homes unable to see their familiesm. Women who have had ultrasound scans alone to be told the baby has died. Families who have lost their only income. Businessess which have closed and taken tens of livelihoods with it.

People aren't arguing for a full lockdown to spite you op, they're arguing for it to save lives!

You're not wrong OP.

By the same logic behind closing the schools, we would also be closing nursing homes and hospitals because they also too have the highest numbers of cases.

I don't agree with the idiot in charge of Wales. But I do actually think he had the right idea to do lockdown over half term. In retrospect, if Bojo was going to do it, he should have started last week really.

@PostItJoyWeek

Hyperbole OP. Nevertheless I agree that schools and unis should stay open. Let the young get infected then recover this month in one go while the vulnerable are shielding. Upon unlock the youth will be a natural firebreak.

Thank fuck you're not making the decisions.

Whilst I do wonder if a two week circuit breaker (with schools and unis shut) would have helped (although for how long, who knows?!), I am an advocate of schools remaining open with measures put in place.
I do feel secondary school children should be wearing masks except when eating, hand gelling needs to be enforced (a lot of kids do not gel when entering classroom, says my KS3 DD) and students should be given wipes to wipe down desks before learning commences.
I, also, feel the govt should have funded WIDESPREAD remote or blending learning. Fully remote could have been implemented at the unis, with only students from the more practical courses or with special needs needing to go in.

@SleepingStandingUp

You do realise that the majority of people on here who spent lockdown surrounded by our families reminiscing on the life were supposedly trying to steal from you had to home educate and support those kids kept out of education? Had to financially support older kids who might otherwise have left home. Have had to choose between childcare or work? Have had to sacrifice those freedoms and seeing our own parents and older children?

Were talking about a few months - even a year - of restrictions where we ALL have to make sacrifices.

You think you're the only ones who didn't get to have fun, have sex, make friends, get new jobs, travel, grow? Then you seriously need to do some growing up. Perhaps use the next month to reflect on how life is not all about you and your experiences.

Partners, study, travel, jobs - they'll still be there when we've got through this. And some of them will be dependent on us getting through this.

You think you have the Monopoly on missing out? The lederly who have died on care homes unable to see their familiesm. Women who have had ultrasound scans alone to be told the baby has died. Families who have lost their only income. Businessess which have closed and taken tens of livelihoods with it.

People aren't arguing for a full lockdown to spite you op, they're arguing for it to save lives!

Urghhh please read my post properly, barely want to grace this one with a response.

1.I didn’t say we’re the only ones. I made it clear my post was talking to Mumsnet posters who have been posting #closetheschools. Most Mumsnet posters got their teenage years/ youth.

2.its not a couple of months to a year. current estimates say this will last for 5 years

1. I never said I want to have fun, sex or travel in lockdown. I said I want my education

1. I don’t understand your point about the elderly, care homes, unemployment and livelihoods- do you think I don’t think it’s bad ? I agree ! It’s all so so shitty, do I think it’s necessary for me to not get my education because of this ? In my opinion, no

People are also forgetting that kids can only be at home if their parents are there!!! You cannot just leave young children whilst you are at work assuming you have a job that cannot be done from home! Not everyone is a stay at home parent...in fact I know very few. if the kids are at home then the parents cannot work. They may lose their jobs!!!!!

@SleepingStandingUp that's not the case though. Next year there won't be double the number of university places. Or in two/three years time when the catch up happens. It'll be the most disadvantaged who don't get the opportunities.

@fatted it will take a while before we get results, but then we can compare a 17 days lockdown with one half term for Wales, with the 3 weeks and a bit for England.
We will see if the half term lockdown has lead to a sharper slow down.
But Wales has years 9 and above with online learning for the second week, while the other years go back to school. Not sure about universities. I think they have online learning for this time.

As a parent I agree with you OP. It’s selfish to expect the young to give up everything us older people have already enjoyed and benefited from. I agree with the lockdown, I have wholeheartedly complied and will continue to do so. But I agree schools And higher education should stay open during this and any further lockdowns. We need to train the young up to be competitive in the national/global job market as they’ll be paying for all this for the foreseeable!

op grow up!!

we got our childhood/youth yes, but it wasn't without obstacles fgs!

I agree with you OP, but it won't be a popular opinion on here where the Lockdown and Covid Police are now resurfacing. I know some are likely to flame me, but I really don't care anymore.

Are you a uni student? I have an 18 year old DD who is a first year at uni this year. She has had very fragile mental health for most of her secondary school years and the transition to uni was always going to be a tricky one. She has clinical depression and it hasn't been helped at all by yesterday's announcements.

She phoned me in a panic this afternoon and was very, very tearful. Lockdown will take away all of the crutches she has been using to shore herself up and she literally cannot see beyond that. I am very worried, but relieved that she has some good friends around her at the moment who seem to be helping.

She is a vulnerable person, not a snowflake. I am going to visit her tomorrow and if I have the slightest doubt about her safety (due to her mental state) I will be trying to persuade her to come home for a while. Lectures are currently all being done remotely anyway.

I have no further school age children, I'm relieved to say although I do understand the issues and fears faced by staff, children and parents there too. I am relieved too thatI only have to worry about my DD's issues, which are quite sufficient.

Theoretically, I have no problems with universities remaining open. Uni students who are doing mostly online lectures should be more able to remain distanced and to a larger degree within their allocated bubbles. Whether they do or not is a different matter.

I am sorry for young people at the moment. Especially those in critical school and university years. I'm also sorry for those who will lose their jobs and livelihoods as a result of another lockdown.

There are no good solutions at the moment. Overall though, I am much less on board with this lockdown than I was with the first.

@BlackPetunia

op grow up!!

we got our childhood/youth yes, but it wasn't without obstacles fgs!

But does that mean that we should never try to improve our situation ? Like , I think this is wrong, so I shouldn’t express that because someone else has had problems too ? No, we should all do what we can to stick up for what we believe to be right at all times.

Also, I’m sorry but the obstacles aren’t comparative. This sort of nationwide lockdown has never happened before. It doesn’t make it harder or less hard than what ever you went through, but are lives are definitely more controlled, isolated and have less freedom which is what I’m talking about

@Fatted

You're not wrong OP.

By the same logic behind closing the schools, we would also be closing nursing homes and hospitals because they also too have the highest numbers of cases.

I don't agree with the idiot in charge of Wales. But I do actually think he had the right idea to do lockdown over half term. In retrospect, if Bojo was going to do it, he should have started last week really.

Not really the same logic - students can learn at home. Hospitals can’t operate, or nursing homes is everyone stays home. Wasn’t it discovered last week that herd immunity won’t work?

I agree with you OP

We need to do everything we can to keep our young people learning and sane and with a belief in the future, or we are all, collectively, totally fucked.

Oh and of course I don’t think the rave is okay. As you know, my post was about education - a NECESSITY, not parties ? Please don’t put words I didn’t say into my mouth

Well, to be fair, your OP was a rant about how unfair this is on the youth, how you don't want to be locked down in the family home & not meet the love of your life blah blah.
I suggest you read what you actually wrote.

You're 18, you have your WHOLE life ahead of you to have fun, meet people, make something of yourself... a few months over winter of staying home & protecting the NHS realky should be beyond you.

You should have a vested interested in protecting the NHS

You should understand that not doing so means people if ALL ages won't be able to access the care/help they need if its overwhelmed.

The lockdown did work. The numbers were very low. IT WORKED

What (predictably) didn't work was unlocking too much, too soon.

Schools/universities have been a HUGE source of transmission. The only way to get the numbers low again is to close them.

The only way to get a life back closer to 2019 is to get numbers low, very low and have an effective track & trace in place.

You're not suffering more than others, you're just frustrated because you want to get on with your life...that's understandable, but you need to be patient, not selfish. Don't assume everyone's having it easier than you. Think about young couples in their late 20's, early 39's crippling mortgage, couple of kids to support, redundancies looming... childcare issues etc.

Me, I'm single, living alone, clinically vulnerable, 52, at risk of becoming redundant. Years away from being mortgage free, properly fucked if I am made redundant. No parents home to go and live in.

You have youth on your side, TRY to appreciate that and see this as a 'pause' in life... because that's all it is. It is not going to stop you having all the things you want. It's really not.

OP I agree with you 100%. Two of my children are currently at university, and they and you deserve to make the most of the experience.

I am not in favour of lockdown and I think it is monstrously unfair to your age group. The country should balance the needs of those who have lived most of their lives against those with their whole lives ahead of them.

May I suggest that you post your thread on the Higher Education board of Mumsnet? You will find kinder comments from lots of parents with student children.

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants

Oh and of course I don’t think the rave is okay. As you know, my post was about education - a NECESSITY, not parties ? Please don’t put words I didn’t say into my mouth

Well, to be fair, your OP was a rant about how unfair this is on the youth, how you don't want to be locked down in the family home & not meet the love of your life blah blah.
I suggest you read what you actually wrote.

You're 18, you have your WHOLE life ahead of you to have fun, meet people, make something of yourself... a few months over winter of staying home & protecting the NHS realky should be beyond you.

You should have a vested interested in protecting the NHS

You should understand that not doing so means people if ALL ages won't be able to access the care/help they need if its overwhelmed.

The lockdown did work. The numbers were very low. IT WORKED

What (predictably) didn't work was unlocking too much, too soon.

Schools/universities have been a HUGE source of transmission. The only way to get the numbers low again is to close them.

The only way to get a life back closer to 2019 is to get numbers low, very low and have an effective track & trace in place.

You're not suffering more than others, you're just frustrated because you want to get on with your life...that's understandable, but you need to be patient, not selfish. Don't assume everyone's having it easier than you. Think about young couples in their late 20's, early 39's crippling mortgage, couple of kids to support, redundancies looming... childcare issues etc.

Me, I'm single, living alone, clinically vulnerable, 52, at risk of becoming redundant. Years away from being mortgage free, properly fucked if I am made redundant. No parents home to go and live in.

You have youth on your side, TRY to appreciate that and see this as a 'pause' in life... because that's all it is. It is not going to stop you having all the things you want. It's really not.

To be honest, as someone who hasn’t broken a single rule, I fail to see how I’m being selfish. I’m allowed to disagree so so strongly and still stick to it all. And I do have a complete interest in protecting the nhs, it doesn’t mean we have the same opinion of what protecting it involves. I don’t think all the paused treatments, cancer diagnosis, mental health waiting times contribute to protecting it in any way shape or form?

And I mentioned all the fun, meeting a partner etc that everyone else got to do, but I never said that’s what I wanted in lockdown I specifically said I wanted schools and unis kept open. I surely can’t be criminalised for wishing I was having fun, meeting people , living life. We’re still allowed to dream

I agree OP. On mumsnet you get loads of women who would love nothing more than their kids at home with them 24/7. They will bake cakes, have scooter rides, supervise home learning, and generally have a nice, pleasant life.

In the real world however no one wants schools to close down again.

@lu00

*Lots of young people are breaking the rules. Lots are also sticking to them. Likewise, lots of adults are breaking the rules while lots are sticking to them.

What an unfair generalisation you have made... especially saying young people won’t where masks when it is NOT the young that have been resisting masks, - it’s overwhelmingly the elderly and adults !!!*

Track and trace in my country has shown that it is the young people that are spreading the virus at the moment. So it's not an unfair generalisation but pure fact.

It’s 4 weeks.

Yes, little Johnny has the right to learn about the Romans or how to carry out long division in school,
However, this is going to break people - some will die, others will lose their businesses or jobs. IMO kids can manage with online learning for a few weeks if it helps to save lives and livelihoods. It’s not ideal, but everybody has to make compromises. The right of kids to an education delivered in school does not outweigh the rights of everybody else to access healthcare and stay alive.
Schools are prepared for online learning now. It will be better than last time. Not perfect, not without issues for some, but much better.

@Flyonawalk

Try looking at the actual statistics of who are occupying hospital beds & who are in ICU. Who is dying.

Have a look at the people the 'young' are transmitting it to.

If people have no compassion for the elderly or the vulnerable, they at least need to open their eyes to the fact that it's not just the over 80's who are ill, that are dying.

Denial isn't helping anyone

My prospects were fucked over by the late noughties recession, then limited by caring responsibilities to my parents. Just when things were starting to look up Covid-19 comes to fuck up my future again.

The more this virus spreads, the worse the economic impact will be. What good is it to people of any age if keeping schools and universities open means the economy gets fucked even more.

@urbanmist

It’s 4 weeks.

Yes, little Johnny has the right to learn about the Romans or how to carry out long division in school,
However, this is going to break people - some will die, others will lose their businesses or jobs. IMO kids can manage with online learning for a few weeks if it helps to save lives and livelihoods. It’s not ideal, but everybody has to make compromises. The right of kids to an education delivered in school does not outweigh the rights of everybody else to access healthcare and stay alive.
Schools are prepared for online learning now. It will be better than last time. Not perfect, not without issues for some, but much better.

Well, nobody can access much healthcare currently, regardless of if schools and unis shut or stay open. And saying ‘everybody has to make compromises’ fails to acknowledge the massive compromises made by the young already. We haven’t done it for ourselves but others, and had nothing but criticism. The emotive language you’ve used to patronise and diminish ‘ little Johnny and his long division’ and then contrasting it with a nice respectful ‘people’ takes away from the fact the children are people too, with real worries, fears and misery about this that no one acknowledges.

Also, last time we all thought it would be 3 weeks, I wouldn’t be so sure it’s just going to be 4

Most Mumsnet posters got their teenage years/ youth
Over dramatic much? Were talking about 5 months over Spring / Summer when you were allowed out to see friends, go to the pubs etc at the end and a couple of months now. Hardly stealing your entire blood youth is it.

Its not a couple of months to a year. current estimates say this will last for 5 years but no one saying close schools is suggesting doing it for 5 years. They're talking about going hard and heavy now to reduce rates so we won't still be farting about in 5 years. Literally no one thinks young people should be locked away for 5 years. That would be the elderly and vulnerable people advocate would just stay in until it's safe

I never said I want to have fun, sex or travel in lockdown. I said I want my education you were going on about the life experiences we all got at 18, not just your education.

do you think I don’t think it’s bad ? I agree ! It’s all so so shitty, do I think it’s necessary for me to not get my education because of this ? In my opinion, no I think you think none of it is as important as what is happening to you and that you're age should somehow not have to make any SHORT TERM sacrifices. You can still get an education because no one advocating closing education is suggesting suspending it

Can I say @lu00 that I sympathise enormously and I know it's been very hard for young people.

But there will be advantages for young people as well as older people to getting a handle on the situion with the virus effectively and quickly. Especially if you areon the wards at all.

Good luck, it is going to be a difficult winter for everyone I think.