Not complying?

[FreedomIS]

... to these unjustifiable and catastrophic lockdowns? These panic induced destructive decisions caused by highly inaccurate hypothetical models?

Just to be clear. SAGE scared the weak Prime Minister into lockdown with a “reasonable worst case scenario” of 4,000 deaths daily.

Yet the highest daily deaths recorded was 2,000 daily in the US in April for a short period.

How did SAGE arrive at 4,000?

And people believe this?

Yep the numbers magically came down on their own........ Lock downs are very tough and no them on their own do not work it needs multiple level approaches and an exit strategy as the nature means that when people reinteract numbers will go up again. But they do stop an exponential growth.

No I don't read medical journals I am too busy working or caring for my toddler but I do listen to my friends who work in ICU departments across the country. I see the tiredness and anguish on their faces. I speak to my mum who is a minister physically and emotionally exhausted by her 10th covid funeral in less than 3 weeks (definitely not her normal funeral numbers even for height of winter).

So you go ahead and write to your MP and moan about how it's a load of rubbish.

Meanwhile I will carry on doing my best to protect my family, friends and try to help the people who are directly affected by people not listening.

[quote FreedomIS]The NHS was never overwhelmed even at the peak on April 8th.

“Figures from the national NHS operational dashboard, seen by HSJ, show that 40.9 per cent of NHS general acute beds were unoccupied as of the weekend — 37,500 of the total 91,600 relevant beds recorded in the data. That is 4,500 more than the 33,000 the NHS said had been freed up on 27 March, and nearly four times the normal amount of free acute beds at this time of year.”

www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-the-nhs-was-not-overrun-by-covid-during-lockdown[/quote]
Mass hysteria about ice rinks.....

Nope actually there was contingency planning for this in the UK and it was deployed in Spain. Not really hysteria if its actually happened now is it!

@FreedomIS you seem to think in very black and white terms.
For example you consider Covid to be either death or recovery.
What about long term health effects that restrict people's ability to contribute to the economy?

@Scottishskifun

Seriously? I have 4 children. I have time to read medical journals. I also listen to friends who are doctors and nurses or who know doctors and nurses. Most wards are empty. They are not seeing their usual patients and people who regularly come into the ER.

A nurse who works at a vein clinic said she is not seeing patients who come in for cancer screenings. She told me “Where are all these patients? The doctor has not made any cancer diagnosis's in weeks when he usually makes several daily”.

Protecting my family is standing-up against these catastrophic lockdowns.

[quote FreedomIS]@SeverusSnape1 Thank you! More people are waking-up. Let’s hope even more do to stop this tyranny.

There are other ways besides the worst possible decision which are lockdowns.

Protecting all hospital and care home patients means protecting around 550,000 people in 12,500 known locations. This could prevent 75% of all CV fatalities. As opposed to trying to stop infections in 67 million people by shutting down society, with untold consequences.[/quote]
The estimates are that to prevent NHS breakdown everyone over the age of 45 would need to be protected. Nearer 30 million people not half a million.

But you know that don't you?

People, save your energy, it isn't worth engaging with this OP. She knows better because she is a free thinker.

@FreedomIS
“If bodies were piling up on ice-skating rinks you'd say it was a photoshop stunt.”
Mass hysteria. This will never happen with a virus like Covid with an IFR of 0.3%
Those who are still reading anything by this poster, just consider the difference between their talking points and real news articles from around the world every day.

The mass deaths already started earlier this year, they continue now:
www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/opinion/coronavirus-morgue-trucks-nyc.html
www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/6/17/when-bodies-piled-up-inside-ecuadors-first-coronavirus-hotspot
amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/10/30/europe/czech-second-wave-hospital-crisis-teens-intl/index.html#aoh=16042413104744&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Non-covid deaths. This is what a truly overwhelmed hospital can lead to:
www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-africa-53580559.

We (the West) are presently engaged in a trade and economic war with China - who are also in the brink of hot war with India. There is much more going on here than just covid

Well spotted

When lockdown ends, the virus resumes – and you are back where you started. Where is the exit strategy? And where is the assessment of the costs?

“What we need are new ideas for containing the damage of the virus, rather than trying to contain the general spread, which has been proved to be a poor strategy.”

• Professor Jay Bhattacharya

Basic primary school geometry lets down that theory.

Try drawing on a page a series of small hills. Look at the little white space under them. Then start drawing an exponential curve that simply continues going up and up and up. Look at the great big white space under it. The difference in white space are cases you could have avoided, and along with them a proportion of deaths. Even if this mountain reached herd immunity, the numbers of cases would swoop past, it's called virus overshoot.

@FreedomIS you're right!
Please tell us what to do!
We were silly sheep to listen to all those 'scientists' and 'experts' and 'professors' and 'medical authorities'.
We should have been listening to an anonymous poster on the internet.
Now we've seen the error of our ways we're all ears.
You're in charge, tell us what to do.

Well there is a point that we need not so much an exit strategy as a working exit solution

And it's generally accepted that it's testing, contact tracing and supported isolation that achieves that

We did testing and forgot about the rest.

If we don't get that, we go round in increasingly harmful lockdown cycles which is stupid. And should not be necessary.

The required public action is not disobedience or ranting and raving , its pressurising the government to get it fixed

You are right in the sense some NHS wards were not full and quite quiet actually but that was because the cancelled routine stuff.
Our actual general non covid ward was very quiet however our ICU which has a capacity of 20 was over stretched to 69 patients one week. We had to shut children’s theatres, a&e recuse rooms to accommodate which is why the other wards were quiet as there was no routine admissions especially children’s.

@No91

I understand what you’re saying but similarly this happened during winter 2018/2019.

I am not against certain covid measures being taken. I am fully against lockdown.

[quote DameCelia]@FreedomIS you're right!
Please tell us what to do!
We were silly sheep to listen to all those 'scientists' and 'experts' and 'professors' and 'medical authorities'.
We should have been listening to an anonymous poster on the internet.
Now we've seen the error of our ways we're all ears.
You're in charge, tell us what to do.[/quote]
But all those scientists and experts etc. disagree with each other. What you are trying to say is that you are listening to all the scientists and experts who are allowed airtime on tv because their opinions fall in line with what the govt is doing.

Sweden 🇸🇪 !
We need to take advice from Anders Tegnell.

“Me & my missus had a simple spontaneous Thursday night date at our Swedish local... seized the moment when the kids had a sleepover at grandma and grandpa.
(Sorry, just want to bring some hope 🙏 )”

twitter.com/jhnhellstrom/status/1322059958674984960?s=21

@Ponoka7

Here in Liverpool our hospital capacity is at 90%. We are cancelling non urgent surgeries. It's irrelevant what the predicted deaths are. Our health system isn't coping.

I've been hospitalised with pneumonia. I've seen the results of not having enough oxygen points. We had to share a portable large cylinder to shower, go to the toilet etc. I don't want to be in that situation again.

We are locking down because our NHS won't cope, not because of SAGE. We should have invested more and raised capacity, but we didn't, so here we are.

The capacity you state is actually the norm for this time of year

@SeverusSnape1 Exactly

“Recent exposure of the "reasonable worst-case scenario" report from the Sage experts - which addresses the worst possible impact of the virus on cases, hospitalisations and deaths during winter - makes grim reading.

The approach taken by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies does not seem profoundly wise as its acronym might suggest, as it focuses solely on the impact of the virus. But there may be a reason for this in the group's title.

This is a medical and clinical emergency but much of the Government's advice is provided by scientists and many nonclinical doctors who never talk to patients. There is concern that we are following the scientists rather than the clinical experts and clinical evidence. If cancer specialists adopted a worst-case scenario when explaining prognosis to their patients, we would dash all hope of a full recovery and cause immeasurable mental and physical harm.

...”

www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1354731/coronavirus-lockdown-restrictions-cancer-patients-healthcare

Tegnell is the last person on the planet that people should be listening to.
You need to read the recent threads on the appalling way the pandemic has been dealt with there. Much of it at his door.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash

Their figures X population are virtually on a par with the UK and Italy.

They'll come out of it faster, economically, because they are a rich country. But they are not going to be judged as a success story. By any stretch of the imagination.

time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

For someone so very sure of their opinions, OP, I think you need to do a bit more of that reading you claim to be doing.

@TheSeedsOfADream

Tegnell is the last person on the planet that people should be listening to. You need to read the recent threads on the appalling way the pandemic has been dealt with there. Much of it at his door.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash

Their figures X population are virtually on a par with the UK and Italy.

They'll come out of it faster, economically, because they are a rich country. But they are not going to be judged as a success story. By any stretch of the imagination.

Incorrect. Plenty of ordinary people, journalists and experts already think Sweden is a success story, sure maybe their opinions change in the future but I don't see that happening unless there death figures there somehow spike drastically.

Tegnell has actually weighted up the benefits and cost of locking down when handling the pandemic. Something this govt is still refusing to do and is instead focusing on covid and covid only.

Go and tell everyone in this country who lost their jobs and business due to the lockdown, who committed or attempted to commit suicide due to the lockdown, who weren't allowed to hug their families at a funeral, who lived allowed and died from dementia because no one was allowed to come check on them, who died or will die due to untreated cancer, who live in a care home and have their health go down the drain because of social isolation and inability to see their family etc. go and tell them Sweden is not a success story. I'm sure they'll agree.

who lived alone* not allowed

Sweden virtually carried out state eugenics if you read what happened there.
And having watched my own mother's funeral via webcast (she died from dementia) you can save your preaching for others.

Yes, there are people supporting Sweden's approach. Sadly, they are deluded. The Swedish govt itself accepts that their approach initially was at best flawed, at worst, suicidal.

Read the data threads.

"In the population as a whole, the impact of Sweden’s approach is unmistakable. More than 94,000 people have so far been diagnosed with COVID-19, and at least 5895 have died. The country has seen roughly 590 deaths per million—on par with 591 per million in the United States and 600 in Italy, but many times the 50 per million in Norway, 108 in Denmark, and 113 in Germany."

From the above article. Numbers. Not opinions.