Not complying?

[FreedomIS]

... to these unjustifiable and catastrophic lockdowns? These panic induced destructive decisions caused by highly inaccurate hypothetical models?

Just to be clear. SAGE scared the weak Prime Minister into lockdown with a “reasonable worst case scenario” of 4,000 deaths daily.

Yet the highest daily deaths recorded was 2,000 daily in the US in April for a short period.

How did SAGE arrive at 4,000?

And people believe this?

I think you lost any advantage there OP, even though what you may have had was tiny.
A link to Boris and Cummings' wife's spiritual home and a conspiracy blog.

Nah.

@upthewolves - if you want actual data, then there's plenty available, some of us post about it every day on other threads. What data would you like to see, name the specific information? Most European countries are documenting their infections and deaths reasonably well, subject to an awareness of missing many cases and tracking the excess deaths; the peak in spring was far higher than any flu season, and now we're heading for an even bigger second wave peak. In other parts of the world you may find cases and deaths aren't always tracked quite as well, but few places consider themselves unaffected by the pandemic. Drastic action in the UK and other European countries should hopefully reduce infections as it did before, though cases will then rise again and there will still be many more deaths than in a normal year.

@Userzzz

OP, no amount of sense or reputable sources will work with the likes of women on Mumsnet. Reading the opinions on this forum about Covid has made me lose all faith that we will ever get out of this mess. Our way of life is being destroyed and we will never get it back. I find it very sad that people who support this think this will be temporary. Pathetic, really.

Well they might if the OP had any. Everything s/he's found so far has been widely discredited. Again, check the data threads for facts. Not tinfoil hatter blogs.

@Scottishskifun

Do you worship Nicola Sturgeon, Scottish?

Lockdowns kill. Lockdowns make poor people poorer.

Why can’t you see this? If the hospitals are overwhelmed, which they’re not, why can’t the government figure out a way to open and use the Nightingale hospitals?

I’m all for giving frontline workers a pay raise. But who will be able to give them a pay raise if there is no economy?! How will the NHS survive without an economy?!

Every winter the NHS is stretched. Excess deaths are at the same level they were last year.

@Userzzz

I know. It’s so sad. In years to come, we’ll be thinking “what have we done”? Especially when the Non-Covid deaths begin to surpass the dying “with” covid deaths.

Our children will look back at this in disdain as they will pay for all.

*I think you lost any advantage there OP, even though what you may have had was tiny.
A link to Boris and Cummings' wife's spiritual home and a conspiracy blog.

Nah*

Yep.
The best construction I can put on this is that you genuinely believe what you are writing, but you are very aware that the vast majority of other people don't. Posts like this help you find others who might agree with you, holstering your belief in what you are saying and easing your self doubt.
Or possibly you just enjoy frightening people like @upthewolves for your own reasons.

@TheSeedsOfADream

Discredited by whom? SAGE?
And now can it be discredited if Prof Sunetra Gupta’s measures weren’t even tried?

Oh wait... there is Sweden.

#followtherules #protectthenhs #protectschools

Hth

It’s really sad how easily you criticize and vilify people who have different views. Everything I stated, I have gotten from well-renowned scientists, epidemiologists, immunologists and biologists.

What are you talking about? Did you @ the wrong person or have They got to you? Is it a code?

I agree that your research is more VALID than the rubbish produced by the NHS, Public Health England or the 'Government'.

I'm really WORRIED about The COVID because I live near a 5G mast. I've got a big bottle of bleach ready in case I start coughing.

Keep up the good work. Hail Trump.

@DameCelia

Your posts are cruel and uncalled for. I’m not surprised you’re a pro-lockdowner since you have no regard for humanity and for public health policy as a whole.

@donquixotedelamancha

Your lack of maturity is really showing. Nice try though.

In our local hospital covid is popping up across all wards and causing mayhem from infection control point of view. We're losing staff due to isolation, track and trace and infections. Our hospitals can't cope with covid being in general circulation.

I don't worship Nicola Sturgeon I think she's trying her best but gets things wrong but she does usually act pretty quickly.

It's not about pay rises the money wouldn't stop the burn out or PTSD occurring in front line staff.

Yes lock down is incredibly tough but overwhelmed hospitals also equals excess deaths and depending on where the hospital is depends on what the levels are. Surgery isn't going to happen for a cancer patient if ICU have had to take over the surgical recovery ward now are they (which several hospitals have had to do in April and will happen again).

You clearly don't have the knowledge of what the front line staff are experiencing day in day out and no its not the normal ICU levels or the same ICU issues. So again stop whining and be a adult rather then stomping your foot saying no I will not, its all rubbish blah blah blah. Take responsibility for your own actions and grow up.

Good Lord @FreedomIS exactly where did I say I am a 'pro lock downer' (whatever that is)?

And how is the gov meant to staff nightingale hospitals when we cant safely staff existing hospitals?

@Scottishskifun

Nope! There is zero evidence lockdowns work. In fact, there is more evidence that lockdowns do more harm than good and do not slow or stop the spread.

Data from NYC in April stated that 60% of hospitalizations came from Stay at Home orders.

You obviously don’t read the BMJ.
The ICUs in the UK in April were only at 60% capacity. They were never overwhelmed and most wards were empty.

More people are dying at home!
www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1931

I am fully against lockdowns and will not comply. I am writing my MPs.

@Ffsnosexallowed

It’s pathetic that the government have spent millions on these hospitals and supposedly can’t staff them.

Again, these lockdowns are political not scientific. Government haven’t a clue in what they’re doing. If they admit they’re at a loss and made a ton of mistakes, I’d have some respect for them.

But the government follows faulty highly inaccurate hypothetical models. They spent millions on tens of thousands of ventilators because of Neil Ferguson’s predictions that never came to fruition.

They are again locking-up 68 million people because they are still following these over exaggerated fear-mongering models.

It didn’t work the first time and it won’t work this time. The virus will be there when people start moving again. It is arrogant to think you can stop/slow a virus by destroying society.

The trouble is, OP, we can't win with people like you.
If the NHS claims it is at capacity in two weeks you wouldn't believe them anyway. If bodies were piling up on ice-skating rinks you'd say it was a photoshop stunt. If 5 people die of Covid between now and March you'll say I told you so. If members of your own family get very sick (or die) from Covid you'd say their time was up and they could have died of the flu.
You need to rock on.

Op you are right. The govt cannot reasonably claim that they are following the science because they are plenty of scientists and experts who disagree with the lockdown approach, even WHO for gods sake.

They also keep relying on the public's lack of knowledge on how viruses work, how hospitals operate at the best of times and how a positive test does not equal a sick person.

They have lost the plot. Not complying either.

You also sound like a very tedious person. Your OPs are similar to a Russian bot that has been pre-filled with information (misinformation/disinformation) to spout.

@DianaT1969

“If bodies were piling up on ice-skating rinks you'd say it was a photoshop stunt.”

Mass hysteria. This will never happen with a virus like Covid with an IFR of 0.3%

There is NO excuse why the NHS is not prepared. They had 9 months to get up to gear!

@SeverusSnape1 Thank you! More people are waking-up. Let’s hope even more do to stop this tyranny.

There are other ways besides the worst possible decision which are lockdowns.

Protecting all hospital and care home patients means protecting around 550,000 people in 12,500 known locations. This could prevent 75% of all CV fatalities. As opposed to trying to stop infections in 67 million people by shutting down society, with untold consequences.

[quote upthewolves]@freedomIS

I'm actually really stressed by this today. Can you help explain this.

My husband has become totally obsessed with this virus and the data around it. Has been writing to the MP, writing to SAGE, constantly looking at graphs. Think its all, not a conspiracy exactly, but an overreaction. He is losing sleep and now I am losing sleep and yesterday a good friend of mine blew up at me about my husbands viewpoint calling him a selfish arse because he's not behind the lockdown.

I'm now more stressed about the fact that he is going to turn everyone against us but you are saying a lot of the same things.

One, he has sent me a graph this morning showing that hospital admissions for respiratory infections are below average and if the same pattern happens as last year they will spike in January meaning we are going to see another huge increase on the graph whatever happens which would suggest lockdown needs to be lengthened again.

I have asked him to show me the normal hospital admissions data for everything but he can't download it as so many people are trying to download the file today. He said that doesn't matter though as just the respiratory infections data should show that this is a normal curve.

My question is... Why. Why would they present it this way. Why would they lie. Why would they cause economic catastrophe. I think this is the thing that is stopping me from taking this all in because it isn't just our country reacting this way.

He can't explain this because he doesn't really know. But he says that if they presented the deaths and hospital figures for any Autumn winter in the way they are now they could tell people it was a pandemic and it would look that way without comparing to other years.

Can you explain what you think is going on please?[/quote]

On the Coronavirus topic there is a thread about 'data'.

They have all the latest data from various sources and review it every single day - go there and they can tell you what's what without any bias or conspiracy theories

@wheresmymojo
Going against the scientific consensus is not being a conspiracy theorist. There are plenty of experts gathering data that have proven SAGE wrong.

The NHS was never overwhelmed even at the peak on April 8th.

“Figures from the national NHS operational dashboard, seen by HSJ, show that 40.9 per cent of NHS general acute beds were unoccupied as of the weekend — 37,500 of the total 91,600 relevant beds recorded in the data. That is 4,500 more than the 33,000 the NHS said had been freed up on 27 March, and nearly four times the normal amount of free acute beds at this time of year.”

www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-the-nhs-was-not-overrun-by-covid-during-lockdown