Not complying?

[FreedomIS]

... to these unjustifiable and catastrophic lockdowns? These panic induced destructive decisions caused by highly inaccurate hypothetical models?

Just to be clear. SAGE scared the weak Prime Minister into lockdown with a “reasonable worst case scenario” of 4,000 deaths daily.

Yet the highest daily deaths recorded was 2,000 daily in the US in April for a short period.

How did SAGE arrive at 4,000?

And people believe this?

twitter.com/jadenozzz/status/1314542399599894528?s=21

@rockpaperscissorsshoot. As I said my DH actually has a degree in stats so he has taken a stats class. He's actually a university lecturer in the field of mathematics and statistics!

Hospitals are overwhelmed already.
I dont work in a hospital anymore but every winter where I used to work they would need to open a couple of extra wards to cope. Doctors and nurses would be dragged from other wards on a rota basis. The new wards would have new nurses and doctors every day. The patients wouldn't have a named Consultant and everyone I talked to would hate it if they had to work on those wards. There was no continuity and no one would know what they were doing.
You would just turn up to work and be told that you had to work on the new ward that day. None of the staff knew the patients. And your own ward would be shortstaffed.
The Consultants were being harangued by the bed managers to discharge people home.
Anyone they thought would survive if sent home even if not well yet would be sent home.
The on call junior doctors would be told to spend their time doing discharge, rather than dealing with the sick patients just because there are not enough beds.
This would happen every winter and sometimes throughout the year depending on how busy it was.
On Winter the day after a particularly icy evening the orthopaedic team 5 times their normal admissions. Elective admissions for other surgical specialities had to be cancelled because there weren't any beds. These were normal winters.
I can totally believe hospitals are overwhelmed or become dangerously overwhelmed. They just cope like they always have to.

This is all making very interesting reading on both sides though and I can see why it it such a divisive issue.

@upthewolves

Watch this. Professor Michael Yeadon has worked with Patrick Vallance.

Greater restrictions are needed imo.

But I think not a total lockdown.

More enforcement of isolation and socially responsible behaviour would have helped prevent so much spread.

Shutting down shopping centres causes a drop to the economy. It would have been cheaper I think to employ the covid Marshalls who could remove people who were breaking the rules. I'm sure it would spread less if there weren't people walking around the wrong way with masks on their chins. Weren't groups of teens hanging around in aisles, eating lollies and touching displays. If shops could and did refuse to serve customers who didn't wait on the (giant!) circles in queues.

The problem for me is we need to produce national lockdowns on everyone to counteract the behaviour of a minority who throw huge parties, have sleepovers, don't follow the rules etc.

And those affected the most are those in society who are already disadvantaged.

@freedomIS I've just watched 5 mins of that (will watch rest later).

I am absolutely aghast that the number of people dying per day is 'bang on' what is expected for this time of year. That is a proper WTF for me.

I am going to have to look up other countries now. Someone in the comments there says Germany is on average deaths for the entire of 2020. That makes NO sense to me.

So if all that is true that is eye opening however, if people are not dying but still need hospital treatment that is an issue and I'm not convinced yet that we don't need to be concerned about hospitals.

I do agree with the PCR test concerns though. I think there should be confirmatory tests. It was strange more wasn't made of that footballer a few weeks ago who requested a second test and it came back negative. I thought that was pretty worrying tbh

Definition of “Lockdown”

• the confining of prisoners to their cells, as following a riot or other disturbance:

[quote DameCelia]@upthewolves please don't worry about this. Humans love conspiracy theories to explain things they struggle to understand or find difficult to accept.
I'm sorry your husband has fallen into this.
I recommend not engaging with people like @PicsInRed or @FreedomIS. They may genuinely believe what they write, they may just be trolls enjoying causing mayhem, they may have more sinister aims and backers.

Concentrate on keeping yourself and your family safe. Ignore your husband's ranting and if necessary rely on your friends.[/quote]
It's funny you should mentions that - I have a cheeky curry in the diary this Friday, with my good friend and backer Putin, no don't worry, it's ok as we've formed a support bubble and he can travel internationally to visit as it's essential work "backer chats" travel. 😊

It's a shame you can't make it, what with limited numbers and all, but we'll try to get you in for next time. He's a brill laugh and makes a divine elderflower in his home gin distillery. Can't wait. 🍸

P.S. don't tell MI5.

YANBU, OP.

Boris is just doing what his Lizard MASTERS tell him. We need to RISE UP against the iluminati.

Wake up sheeple.

Listen to the TRUTH from heroes like OP. Get your facts from www.davidicke and www.rt.com, not "Scientists" and "Doctors".

The video the OP sent me was a qualified biologist. Don't really think that's a constructive counter argument at all.

@upthewolves - Thank you!

@donquixotedelamancha It’s really sad how easily you criticize and vilify people who have different views. Everything I stated, I have gotten from well-renowned scientists, epidemiologists, immunologists and biologists.

Dr Mike Yeadon has a degree in biochemistry and toxicology and a research-based PhD in respiratory pharmacology. He has spent over 30 years leading new medicines research in some of the world’s largest pharmaceutical companies, leaving Pfizer in 2011 as Vice President & Chief Scientist for Allergy & Respiratory. That was the most senior research position in this field in Pfizer. Since leaving Pfizer, Dr Yeadon has founded his own biotech company, Ziarco, which was sold to the worlds biggest drug company, Novartis, in 2017.

The five stages of grief model postulates that those experiencing grief go through a series of five emotions: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

Stress is similar to grief, and a pandemic turns out to be very stressful to live through. Some people are still stuck back at denial. Others have moved on to anger once they realised not following guidelines led to a relative dying (therefore blame government). Bargaining over what's actually needed or isn't; plenty stuck in that stage. Depression - yes, some despair can be seen from those who don't know how to face up to the long winter ahead. The good news is that right behind that comes acceptance - that we are living in extraordinary times, that we have to make sacrifices as a society to get as many through this stage as possible, and accepting that it will not go on forever, so we can do this.

MRex
It can easily be argued that an endless cycle of lockdowns is actually the "bargaining" stage - which fits quite well, when you consider the rhetoric is "getting the virus under control" and "saving Christmas".

@MRex

Wow! Way to project your feelings and beliefs.

I disagree with all of your 5 stages of grief.

Secondly, this is an endemic not a pandemic anymore. COVID-19 will be with us forever even with a vaccine, which scientists are saying won’t even fully work like flu vaccines.

Maybe you could ask the posters on the Graphs thread to help you understand things a bit better OP.

Have you signed the GBD as well perchance?

Why is it not a pandemic anymore?

@mrex I see what you are saying but don't think it's sensible to hang something so huge on people's emotional responses, would rather form my opinion by comparing actual evidence and data. Just seems worrying to say "oh they're just in denial" when someone disagrees with a government.

[quote FreedomIS]@MRex

Wow! Way to project your feelings and beliefs.

I disagree with all of your 5 stages of grief.

Secondly, this is an endemic not a pandemic anymore. COVID-19 will be with us forever even with a vaccine, which scientists are saying won’t even fully work like flu vaccines.[/quote]
They're not Mrex's 5 stages.
They're the ones that psychiatry and psychology use in their evaluations and have done for years.

I honestly don't know what to think anymore but I do find @FreedomIS points very thought provoking.

@TheSeedsOfADream

I know about the “Five Stages of Grief”. I disagree with MRex’s projection of feelings onto others.

Having friends work in the NHS, be completely exhausted and burnt out but still continuing each day with ICU patients I find attitudes like this disgusting and abhorrent.

Think what you like about the government etc but it's real people day in day out dealing with the front line. Selfish behaviour just screws it all for the majority. Stop being a whining child about it and act like a responsible human!

I'm curious about the motives @FreedomIS has for posting in the first place?

Tom Jefferson & Carl Heneghan
The ten worst Covid data failures

www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-ten-worst-Covid-data-failures

Long but well worth the read. Dr Yeadon is spot on using reliable scientific data.

lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/

Posters may also wish to do their own analysis and critical thinking regarding the Heneghan-Gupta-Sikora side of things.

OP, no amount of sense or reputable sources will work with the likes of women on Mumsnet. Reading the opinions on this forum about Covid has made me lose all faith that we will ever get out of this mess. Our way of life is being destroyed and we will never get it back. I find it very sad that people who support this think this will be temporary. Pathetic, really.