Say it with me folk - children are people

[Ohalrightthen]

So many threads on here, and so many people on my SM and in my whatsapp groups, all asking "we can meet one person outside the house, so it i go to meet my friend, can we take our kids?"

Are your kids people? Question answered!

I know it sucks, I'm gutted, and will shortly be spending aaaalllllll my time with my 1yr old and would love to be able to take her out with me to see friends, but surely a little common sense is in order?

[OpheliasCrayon]

Hmmm now whilst I know what the rules actually are ..I am very willing to debate that my children are not actually people... No people can behave as feral as that and still be classed as people, honestly! Puppies maybe....

[mynameiscalypso]

Plus children (quite rightly) don't count as people for the purposes of a support bubble so it's a bit contradictory to say that they do when it comes to meeting up with someone for a walk!

[Ginfilledcats]

@TheGoldenApplesOfTheSun

Glaringly obvious these rules were written by men who have no childcare responsibilities and have probably never changed a nappy

THIS

[Ginfilledcats]

@onedayinthefuture

Do you realise how many women there are are stuck at home all day with babies and toddlers whilst their partners are at work? It's criminal that a woman should have to be alone all day waiting for dad to come home for an adult conversation or for someone to help. Cutting off women like this is dangerous. It's cruel and should be fucking illegal.

AND THIS

[Qasd]

So just to be clear your thread should have read “folks children are people but babies are not people even though the government thinks they are people”

Good good we have cleared that up!

[Ohalrightthen]

[quote secretllama]@Ohalrightthen

Ahh ok. So it's ok to leave a 2 year old at home to go meet your pal, or for a mother to just make do with 2 year old conversation all day. Cool. Ffs.[/quote]
Yes, go without your child, or don't go!

[PicsInRed]

Clarification - i am talking about mobile children.

Aren't babies people too, OP? 😉

Do you really think women with toddlers and primary aged kids don't need adult company to remain sane? Oh bless your heart. How old are your kids?

[Ohalrightthen]

@PicsInRed

Clarification - i am talking about mobile children.

Aren't babies people too, OP? 😉

Do you really think women with toddlers and primary aged kids don't need adult company to remain sane? Oh bless your heart. How old are your kids?

I have a 1yr old, as i stated in my OP. It's going to be supremely shit having no adults to talk to for the next month. It's still absolutely necessary.

Pandemics aren't pleasant. There is no way to make this a lovely time for everyone. We just need to suck it up and get on with it, otherwise we'll still be in this position next year, but by that time we'll all probably be grieving too.

[AwaAnBileYerHeid]

@PicsInRed I'm just wondering why it was necessary to add the snide, snarky "oh bless your heart" in there? Couldn't your point have been made without snarkiness?

[LittleMissLockdown]

I have a 1yr old, as i stated in my OP. It's going to be supremely shit having no adults to talk to for the next month. It's still absolutely necessary.

But if we followed your logic of only mobile children are people then those with non mobile 1 year olds would be able to meet up with another adult as their non mobile child doesn't count as a person...

Ask yourself honestly OP exactly wjat extra risk do you think a child in a pushchair poses in terms of covid transmission?? Why do you think the Government guidelines should just be blindly followed?

[midnightstar66]

Well in Scotland under 12's don't count towards any number and haven't done since fairly early in to last lockdown and it hasn't caused huge outbreaks in children. Dc 11 and under do not need to distance from each other or from adults. So it's not necessarily common sense as people have said above. It's working well here for our children.

[Ohalrightthen]

@LittleMissLockdown

I have a 1yr old, as i stated in my OP. It's going to be supremely shit having no adults to talk to for the next month. It's still absolutely necessary.

But if we followed your logic of only mobile children are people then those with non mobile 1 year olds would be able to meet up with another adult as their non mobile child doesn't count as a person...

Ask yourself honestly OP exactly wjat extra risk do you think a child in a pushchair poses in terms of covid transmission?? Why do you think the Government guidelines should just be blindly followed?

Yeah that was basically my acquiescence to the hoards of people telling me i was unreasonable to say that mums with babes in arms can't meet up with a friend. I think that's pretty much "within the spirit of the law" if not the letter.

If you're lucky enough to have a kid who's happy to stay in their pram, then yeah I'd say that's probably reasonable, and also I'm v jealous, mine was walking at 9m and will tolerate the pram for 3min tops.

[ReggieCat]

Fatted Sun 01-Nov-20 10:48:45

Children are also people in the respect that we should care about their welfare and the long term consequences that this pandemic will have on them.

Everyone says we should think about the elderly. But we are sacrificing the future of our children without a second thought. Let's give 99 year old Beryl an extra 6 months. Never mind that our kids will be illiterate because they have missed two years of school.


You clearly needs lessons in simple arithmetic - lockdown began in March of this year, which is 7 months ago, not 2 years.

Schools are now staying open but when they weren't there was involvement from schools to keep education going. But if you can read and write and your children are illiterate, that's down to your parenting as much as the school.

[midnightstar66]

I also think it's pretty contradictory of you to decide that children of certain age should be counted as people but you get to make your own rules on what age/stage they come to be so.

[Ohalrightthen]

@midnightstar66

I also think it's pretty contradictory of you to decide that children of certain age should be counted as people but you get to make your own rules on what age/stage they come to be so.

I mean, I'm kinda regretting saying that, as it is obviously a super dodgy concept. I sorta kneejerked when people said about nursing mothers with newborns therefore not being able to see anyone. I suppose i sort of see babies as extensions of their mothers until about 6 months, but you're absolutely right, that's not the legal position.

[midnightstar66]

*You clearly needs lessons in simple arithmetic - lockdown began in March of this year, which is 7 months ago, not 2 years.

• Not forgetting that 3 months of that we're school holidays.
  
  Thankfully it is the law here that babies are an extension of their mothers as are my 10 and 7 year olds. This works really well and after that was introduced numbers continued to fall. There have been very few cases in primary schools here and no school transmission where there has been a positive case, even though we are in one of the worst hit areas in Scotland in general, so it doesn't seem common sense to me at all and I think I'd struggle to keep my dc isolated.

[MessAllOver]

Clearly what mothers of small babies should do is book a babysitter for their child (childcare allowed) in order to go meet their friend for a walk. After all, it's much less risk having someone actually coming into your house to care for your small child than to strap them into a buggy and take them with you .

Meanwhile, in the real world...

[Ponoka7]

But household bubbles can still go ahead and I think that's were some people wrongly think you can't meet up with your support and take the children, you can.

Children aren't filling up the hospitals, neither are women young enough to give birth, personally I'd risk assess and go ahead. I see enough people of my age 50+ who don't seem to give a dam. Children certainly shouldn't suffer and many are. It's now seven months without proper contact.

[GalesThisMorning]

In England you have your own rules. In Wales, outside of this firebreak, children under 11 don't need to social distance and are not included in the numbers of people who can meet up outdoors.

Reason 9987654321 that I'm so glad to live in Wales and not England!!

[Ignoringequally]

@PicsInRed

I think the point is that women are people, and sometimes mothers need to meet up for a conversation which goes further than "farts hurr hurr" in order to remain sane - and therefore continue caring for said children.

HTH.

I have a nearly 2 year old. I’ve lost my job due to Covid, so can no longer afford his nursery place. No toddler groups have reopened in my area. So since March, I have been with him all day every day. DH has worked until 7pm throughout. Our only real respite in this time has been meeting my dad for walks. I am at the end of my rope to be honest and those walks are the only thing keeping me sane.
But yeah, good to hear people think it’s ‘common sense’ that my toddler and I should just suck it up for a few more months.

[KitKatastrophe]

So your title should have said "say it with me folks - children are people (but babies aren't, in my opinion, but are under the rules) - unless you live in Scotland"

[GrumpySausage]

The bit that gets me is my parents provide childcare for my 2 children, one of which is at school. So they have the children in their house 3 days a week when I'm at work. This is allowed as a childcare bubble.

My DH is out all day at work and on the days I'm not working, my only sanity was meeting with my mum for a walk, taking 2 year old along.

Now I can't do this because of the new rules. So they can continue to have the kids in their house but cannot meet with me (wfh, no other contact) and my 2 year old outside.

I am never alone. I love my kids I do, but I also love conversation with someone other than a reduced verbal 2 year old. (whole other thread)

I know these rules are their for a reason, but it does make it hard to swallow. Struggling to remain positive.

[OttomanViper]

Some children with SEN can't access home learning, and may not be able to read and write. Nothing to do with how good or bad their parents are at bringing them up. That's in reply to a previous couple of posters who I should probably just ignore.

[Flev]

What this also means is that my toddler can't see another human being apart from her parents. But hey, we all know pre-schoolers don't count because "they won't remember this" - no worry at all about a complete lack of opportunity to develop any social skills, which will probably impact her for the rest of her life...

[PostItJoyWeek]

61 year old Beryl's chances of dying from Covid are vanishingly small. If she is vulnerable she should isolate.

We won't be going into MIL's nursing home.

I hope the vulnerable isolate well during this month while the youngsters and their low risk adults all catch it through school thus becoming a human firebreak to the virus when the vulnerable's isolation ends.