If it's OK for teachers to have to carry on working....

[jomartin281271]

If it's OK for teachers to have to carry on working, why isn't it OK for MPs to go back to Parliament and work no PPE and no social distancing? These MPs know how dangerous it is out there and there's no way they'll put themselves in danger, but they're quite happy to throw teachers under the bus. And by the way, I'm not a teacher, I'm an appalled parent.

It's virtually impossible to teach wearing a mask. Everything you say is muffled. When teaching phonics children need to be able to see the shape of your mouth, correct enunciation is crucial

It is hard to teach with a mask, but it's not hard for the children to wear them. This is illustrated where I teach in Singapore by the thousands of children age 4 and above who have worn them every day since June. This has protected every one and has played no small part in the fact that Covid has been virtually eliminated. Teachers teach in Shields, with masks between lessons, and all children wear masks except for eating and PE. I just cannot understand why this can't be adopted in order to help protect the teachers who rightly, feel vulnerable at the moment.

My dsis works in a warehouse, there's no social distancing at all and she's the only English girl working with Eastern Europeans.
We are Romany ourselves, btw.
They are hugging, and sharing things, eating in the canteen.
This is despite everything being provided for them.
Markers on the floor, safe distancing, PPE. Separate break times,
Dsis knows it's only a matter of time before she catches it.

Wtf have teachers been offered ito safety, there's not a job I can think of where there is such a lack of safety, being offered.
It's not right and so sad that parents are deciding to vilify teachers for asking for the basics.
Society isn't very nice atm.

@echt

I love teaching but at the end of the day ITS A JOB

This made me laugh. I remember saying this at an INSET day and the look of hatred from the HT!!

😂😂 It drives me mad that we are given this while 'for the love of the job/children' tag which then carries across into substandard working conditions and being expected to work in ways that no other professional with the same level of qualifications would tolerate.

I love my job but it IS a job.
My family mean more and I want them, and myself, adequately protected.

Also the argument needs to move away from just teachers. Many other people work in school. Often those jobs are taken by people who are more vulnerable and older. Their jobs are far less secure and paid much much less (I used to do schools payroll).
TAs, cleaners, dinner ladies, student support, school nurses and health workers, technicians, reception, office staff, caretakers.. I’m shocked how they are forgotten on the many threads about this, schools are not just teachers. Many of those staff also get closer to students.

Sewsosew*

My cousin is a dinner lady her husband a caretaker.
Neither role is comparable to that of a teacher ito contact and lack of protection.
Office staff have screens, usually for protection more than anything. School nurse at my dd school, full protection, one child at a time, usually quite briefly.
Come on you must be able to imagine a classroom of kids, in a smallish room with little if no ventilation.

So many other jobs still have to go out to work during lock down not just teachers I'm afraid. I worked in a supermarket lock down 1 now I'm in a care home lock down 2

8TAs, cleaners, dinner ladies, student support, school nurses and health workers, technicians, reception, office staff, caretakers.. I’m shocked how they are forgotten on the many threads about this, schools are not just teachers. Many of those staff also get closer to students*

This.

[quote Duemarch2021]@Alizzle

It doesn't pose a risk to YOU.. so yes why would you care?

Im studying to become a teacher (all from home at the moment) but i can completely see why teachers are scared... maybe THEY do have reasons that make them vulnerable to the virus or maybe they live with vulnerable family members with COPD or cancer or care for their elderly parents... this is probably very common for a lot of teachers. Its not like their being unreasonable, they are in a room with 30 children or teenagers every day without PPE .. and lets face it a lot of teenagers and children probably arent as hygienic as they should be... is it really LUCKY that they still have their job?[/quote]
So vulnerable people shouldn't shield? They should expect everyone else around them to face economic pressure? They should expect other people to not worry about their and their families mental health?
And yes I think having a job is preferable to being homeless. Every job has risks, teachers aren't unaware that children spread germs. I'm not sure why this is a revelation to some people?
It would be loads easier for that minority to take extra precautions and for the government to financially support those few while the rest of us get on with life, develop herd immunity and not destroy our children's future. The average age some one has died of covid is something like 87 while the average life expectancy in the UK is about 81.
I for one don't want the suicide rate to go up again.

Because what’s the why ? most kids in reception need weeks to understand where to put their water bottle and how not to sit in each other’s laps let alone mask wearing. And who fends off an upset child with a 2 meter rule? A lot of children in reception need a heck of a lot of parenting before teaching even begins and that doesn’t happen behind a mask on either side.
Luckily, my family is less important 👍

It is hard to teach with a mask, but it's not hard for the children to wear them.

Exactly. If teachers went without masks but the kids wore them, everyone, including the kids' families who they'd otherwise bring Covid home to, would be at less risk.

I really dont understand why secondary pupils (who have to wear masks in shops and everywhere else indoors) aren't being asked to wear them in school.

Each form now has its own toilet and only.one child allowed to go at once

Wow! How big is that school? This could absolutely not be the case in any school I've worked in.

@Devilesko what about TAs, many do toilet duties? Caretaking staff and kitchen staff are cleaning up.
No teachers in DDs large secondary have been off yet, not any of my friends who are teachers or their schools?
The science about the nature of transmission is still unclear though.

Sewsew

Personally, I see anyone with the same contact time with a large group of children in the same conditions as equal, whatever the role.
Caretakers and kitchen staff are not in close contact with a class of children. Contact is usually very brief.

My dd school is managing so well, nobody gets through the gates without a temperature check. The kids get them twice a day.
One case since March that had a few girls isolate.
I bet the teachers feel valued with their little classes social distancing and masks.
State schools could do this, it should be a minimum for all schools.
As for pp comparing salaries with other professions, is that what it's come down to? What salary deserves protection?

State schools could do this, it should be a minimum for all schools.

It would be great if they could. Government says no.

@Kitcat122

"personally believe if you aren't in an at risk group it should be business as usual. Why should I be terrified of a virus that poses no risk to me??"

Wow are you super human?? How do you know?

The point is there are lots of illnesses that potentially you could die of but you know, from whats reported, that you will survive. I'm not is an at risk group nor in an age group that has a high death rate. I did care at the start where it was unknown but, like a lot of people now, I'm at the end of my tether. I've had people I know had to cancel weddings holidays or not be able to go to funerals. I've had my little boy not being able to sleep because the teacher decided to show a news report on covid. I've had numerous friends with children say the same. I'm scared for my child's future, not because of the virus but because of the over the top reaction to a virus that will impact his future and most likely his children's too. Most of us live on the breadline and can't afford another lockdown, so I don't know what dream world some people live in but there isn't an infinite pot of money, its coming from some where and its coming from your kids futures.

@CraftyGin

I SD from students and other adults at school. I never get closer than one metre, where I wear a face covering and lab coat. I avoid getting that close if possible. I don’t share paper in most lessons. Any written tests they do don’t get marked for at least 72hrs.

Bully for you. Science teacher, given lab coat? So a large lab and a small class. You must never go into a corridor at any point if you manage to maintain a 1m distance at all times. Since you are less than 2m for over 15 minutes regularly, don't think you can consider yourself safe tbh.

The reason the GP is wearing PPE etc is because they will definitely come across cases of covid and it is to prevent spreading it to all the other majority of the patients that don't have covid and want to see gp for other things

Not correct. This was a tiny surgery with one doctor only. My daughter was the only patient in the building during our appointment. There were no patients in when we arrived and we were the last appointment of the day. He wore it for us, just in case. Perfectly reasonable of course, just as it's reasonable for teachers to wonder why we don't justify any protection at all.

No, he wore it in case he had COVID, to protect you from him.

People keep getting this the wrong way round. Masks protect other people from you, they don't protect you from other people.

The government says teachers can't teach in a mask, fine. They don't actually need one to keep them safe, what they need is for the kids in the class to be wearing them. However, apparently you can mandate that the kids wear one.

I work in a hospital. I have to wear PPE to protect my patients from me, as I'm at a high risk of contracting COVID. It's a disciplinary procedure if I don't. However, it doesn't work the other way round. There is no way to compel a patient who refuses to wear a mask to wear one, even they have known COVID, and my PPE doesn't protect me at all. I'm also told that I don't need to self isolate despite being in close contact with these people 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's shit for everyone, unless everyone follows the rules.
^
^

@Vivana

So many other jobs still have to go out to work during lock down not just teachers I'm afraid. I worked in a supermarket lock down 1 now I'm in a care home lock down 2

Has the government told you that PPE is not needed in your care home?

Has the government told you that PPE is not needed in your care home?

But this is the point. The carers aren't protected from the people they work with, unless the residents are wearing masks 24-7 and I don't know if a single care home where that is happening.

The residents are protected from the staff when the staff wear a mask, but it doesn't work the other way around, so, no, carers and health professionals generally aren't protected.

This doesn't change the fact that teachers also have a very high risk job, but for those saying they are the highest risk profession, they really aren't.

@Alizzle I don't won't a lockdown and I don't want schools shut I am a TA I don't earn much. I want more safety procedures for my colleagues and myself. I am not clinically vulnerable, am youngish and very fit. I got Covid in March and am still unable to exercise and am under a post Covid clinic nearly 8 months on, so sorry if I don't agree with your comments on not to be afraid of Covid. I am very....

"The reason the GP is wearing PPE etc is because they will definitely come across cases of covid and it is to prevent spreading it to all the other majority of the patients that don't have covid and want to see gp for other things"

Not correct. This was a tiny surgery with one doctor only. My daughter was the only patient in the building during our appointment. There were no patients in when we arrived and we were the last appointment of the day. He wore it for us, just in case. Perfectly reasonable of course, just as it's reasonable for teachers to wonder why we don't justify any protection at all.

Justchecking1 - yes that's right - it is strange people aren't able to grasp this though themselves.

The GP put in for protection for you - GP reducing risk of transferring it to you from either themselves or from another patient - if medical services shut down no-one can get any help anywhere.

The spread reaches a tipping point where hospitals won't cope with anything other than covid and we would then be back entirely where we were in March and medical staff won't be available to help you. Not because they're all dead but because they are all either unwell with a virus or self-isolating.

for those saying they are the highest risk profession, they really aren't.

I really don’t think anyone is saying that. Of course it’s not the highest risk, but it is high risk in the sense that if you do get Covid in your class - which you may never do - you don’t really have any protection to stop it spreading. It’s not like we’re working with people who are at a high risk of having it, like people working in Covid wards or just general healthcare - but then they have PPE so more protection against it spreading. I’d still rather take my chances in the classroom, personally.

I think the issue is that people post so much about how schools must stay open (true) and how they can’t homeschool their kids without having a breakdown (I can imagine very true!!) but then with the same breath they have a dig at teachers for saying it’s not totally safe? It’s like, mate, if it’s that important to you to have your kids in school, which it should be, then maybe be thankful that teachers are there facilitating that in an environment which isn’t that safe for us?! I feel incredibly thankful for people who make it so that I can go to the shops and buy food, get the bus, have my bins emptied, have all those vital things. I don’t bitch at them if they say that working in a shop is hard right now - which I have seen. It just seems mad that people are desperate for schools to stay open (same) but have no empathy for the people who are actually making that happen - and that’s not just teachers.

Why do we all keep waiting for the government to tell us all when and where it's necessary to wear a mask?? Can't we all just suck it up and wear masks? It's all " well we dont have to because of bla bla and the government haven't said we have to so we won't until they say we must" ... people just need to use common sense.. wear the bloody mask

SimonJT

No the opposite the care commission visited us and said Ppe is necessary for my job.

The science about the nature of transmission is still unclear though.

It's really not. Have you heard Dr Fauci? Ideal transmission is crowded, indoor spaces with no social distancing and no masks. I.e. state schools in the UK.

You do need a positive case for transmission to occur, but as rates rise, having a case in a secondary fast becomes highly probable and no cases less and less likely.

We know many children are asymptomatic.