To think schools should be shut during lockdown.

[Ilovegreentomatoes]

So shutting down everything but keeping schools open.AIBU to think that a lockdown should involve schools closing as well.Have been about six cases in my dds secondary zero social distancing and is just defeating the object of a lockdown as it has now been proven that schools,colleges etc can easily spread the virus.

According to the ons I think it was 65 as of may. Not sure where I got the 80 from.

This analysis is no longer being published though.

From the BBC

"Keeping secondary schools open could lead to a longer lockdown in England, according to one professor.

Andrew Hayward, professor of infectious diseases epidemiology at University College London, said earlier it was clear there was "substantial transmission" within secondary schools.

It comes as more than 150,000 teachers and support staff backed the National Education Union's (NEU) campaign to close schools and colleges as part of England's lockdown.

Schools are an "engine for virus transmission", the largest teaching union in Britain has warned."

From May schoolsweek.co.uk/ons-figures-reveal-65-covid-related-deaths-in-education/

I can't find any recent figures on a quick Google, though I thought I had seen a number in 3 figures somewhere.

It would be interesting to have an update on this from ONS at this point.

@Sonnenscheins

Why would education ministers, unions and local politicians be saying the same thing if it wasn't true?

Can you please name these countless politicians who are calling for the education of our young people to be shut down?

And please take a look abroad, most educated societies are specifically keeping schools open.
They understand their value. They also understand the unintended consequences of closing them!

Most educated societies have also put money into keeping their schools open.

Italy has spent 2.9 billion Euros on more space, more teachers etc.

The US has put a lot of its teaching online. Because, regarding education "they understand [its] value"

@herecomesthsun

From the BBC

"Keeping secondary schools open could lead to a longer lockdown in England, according to one professor.

Andrew Hayward, professor of infectious diseases epidemiology at University College London, said earlier it was clear there was "substantial transmission" within secondary schools.

It comes as more than 150,000 teachers and support staff backed the National Education Union's (NEU) campaign to close schools and colleges as part of England's lockdown.

Schools are an "engine for virus transmission", the largest teaching union in Britain has warned."

Thanks for this It is really just common sense that schools will be hot spots for virus transmissions. It may not be obvious right now but will eventually spill out into the wider community. Vast majority of students don’t display symptoms or the symptoms don’t meet the criteria for testing. Unfortunately there are also many parents who will “ignore” possible covid symptoms in their kids as they have no alternative care available for them or they simply can’t be arsed. Regardless though, this doesn’t mean that the virus will not be passed on to adults that they are in contact with. I’m not a teacher and I do have school aged kids, but I think it’s disgusting that teachers are expected to go into schools without decent PPE and with large class sizes. If I was a teacher I would just take a few months off with stress tbh. It’s bizarre how we expect people to sympathise with those who are at risk of losing their jobs, businesses, mental health etc yet we are willing to turn a blind eye to the mental health and well-being of teachers or their families.

People get grief for wanting a lockdown and are accused of being selfish and not giving a second thought for those with mental health issues or those who are about to lose their homes, jobs etc. When the reality is those in a similar situation themselves can only sympathise properly.
It’s the same thing, unless you are a teacher or a loved one is a teacher we don’t really care about the risks for them as long as our kids get an education.

If we really cared about teenagers we would close secondary schools. Any tiny benefit to in school versus remote learning will be cancelled out by the lack of job opportunities due to a longer lockdown that damages the economy for longer.
The government want to be seen to prioritise children when really they are not.
If they did they would sort out the laptop fiasco and focus on remote learning.

unless you are a teacher or a loved one is a teacher we don’t really care about the risks for them as long as our kids get an education.

Well, unfortunately the Government has to make decisions based on the greatest benefits for society overall.

They need to weigh up the benefits of closing schools against the costs of closing them. And the costs are large not only in terms of disrupting childrens' education but also in terms of unintended knock on effects.

If we really cared about teenagers we would close secondary schools.

Well all the teenagers I know have suffered as a result of the last school closure. Not only in terms of missed education but in terms of mental health and missing their University place!!

If I were a teacher my priority would be the children I teach unless I thought I was at a very great risk of dying if I contracted covid.

@Sonnenscheins

unless you are a teacher or a loved one is a teacher we don’t really care about the risks for them as long as our kids get an education.

Well, unfortunately the Government has to make decisions based on the greatest benefits for society overall.

They need to weigh up the benefits of closing schools against the costs of closing them. And the costs are large not only in terms of disrupting childrens' education but also in terms of unintended knock on effects.

I absolutely agree with this. The point I was trying to make before was that there isn’t a right or wrong it entirely depends on individual’s own circumstances. Some support lockdown some don’t. Some want schools to shut and some don’t. Doesn’t mean we are right or wrong. As you said the government believes it’s the right thing to continue to do not just for to continue educating children, but also because of the unintended knock on effects you mentioned. Similarly, some people may believe that lockdown is the right thing and if some people are negatively impacted by it then so be it. Just like teachers or NHS workers are expected to work to save the country and the economy, then unfortunately some people may lose their businesses and homes in the process of bringing this pandemic under control. We need to have the same attitude towards all the different scenarios out there. However, I find that on MN if you are for a lockdown you are bad and selfish and if you want schools to stay open and teachers to take risks then that’s widely accepted, because the government says it’s ok and it’s a sacrifice we have to make for the economy. However, we should have the same attitude with lockdowns and the tragedies that come with it as the government have recommended them too.

@Sonnenscheins the teenagers I know found the opposite their mental health improved learning from home. If you have an unsupportive home life then learning from home wouldn’t be as positive an experience..

the teenagers I know found the opposite their mental health improved learning from home. If you have an unsupportive home life then learning from home wouldn’t be as positive an experience..

Even with the most supportive home life, many teens unfortunately suffered during the school closures earlier in the year.

Many didn't have access to laptops to access online learning, many found their schools online provision was very poor, many found the whole Gcse and A level fiasco very stressful, many suffered from being isolated at home, many didn't get the grades they needed for University etc etc.

In fact I can't think of many teenagers whose mental health improved during the last lockdown.

Well op, seems a fair few agree with you.

And a fair few certainly don't

No shit Sherlock

I do think that, but then I remember so many children are in food poverty and now they will go through heating poverty. People on low incomes used to go to the library were it was nice and warm after school. Where will they take their children? To warm them in these cold months?

It doesn't have to be a case of either/or.

but for those that want schools to stay open there has to be a compromise on your part as well.

Or we will probably end up shutting schools to some or all year groups.

As has been stated many times, if enough teachers go off sick or SI schools will have to close.

Protect the teachers to stop this happening.

My teens enjoyed lockdown at first. It was a rest and a break. Then they started getting restless and despondent. I think the length of a lockdown matters.

@echt

But if it's easier to call me names

I did not call you a name, ThreeImaginaryBoys

I know you didn't. I was thanking you for talking sense. The comment about name calling wasn't aimed at you in the least! Sorry.

All the comments about missing education well they have missed most of the year anyway so will another month really make that much of a difference? Think education wise we have to forget this year it's been exceptional circumstances.

@AldiAisleofCrap

If we really cared about teenagers we would close secondary schools. Any tiny benefit to in school versus remote learning will be cancelled out by the lack of job opportunities due to a longer lockdown that damages the economy for longer. The government want to be seen to prioritise children when really they are not. If they did they would sort out the laptop fiasco and focus on remote learning.

This.

I think focus on how to get remote learning working and where that is not possible think of alternatives to make schools safer. I am not sure if this is possible but maybe use office spaces for schools to have more real estate. I think schools don't need to maintain the 2 m but we should try where it is possible. Our schools are so small and would benefit from extra spaces. Maybe more cover teachers so smaller groups of kids can be in a bubble. The secondary near me has a bubble of 200 students which I find confusing. Students are told to wait in a marquee between lessons as they have no space.

@Ilovegreentomatoes

All the comments about missing education well they have missed most of the year anyway so will another month really make that much of a difference? Think education wise we have to forget this year it's been exceptional circumstances.

It really does for exam years. Especially as mocks are starting and may well be crucial for marks.

@Ilovegreentomatoes

All the comments about missing education well they have missed most of the year anyway so will another month really make that much of a difference? Think education wise we have to forget this year it's been exceptional circumstances.

That’s the attitude! Well they’ve lost a year so let’s just make it two! Fabulous. I’m sad you’re not Prime Minister OP 🤦🏻‍♀️

If we really cared about teenagers we would close secondary schools

Are you being ironic