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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think schools should be shut during lockdown.

814 replies

Ilovegreentomatoes · 31/10/2020 19:53

So shutting down everything but keeping schools open.AIBU to think that a lockdown should involve schools closing as well.Have been about six cases in my dds secondary zero social distancing and is just defeating the object of a lockdown as it has now been proven that schools,colleges etc can easily spread the virus.

OP posts:
echt · 01/11/2020 07:16

which is weird because I've don't the odd day of strikes in the past over things that seem so trivia in comparison

They can only call strike action about pay and conditions of service. The health and safety aspect isn't governed by the Burgundy Book but by industry-wide legislation.

Now I think of it, my own union had to take the employer to court about an aspect of teachers' work because it wasn't in the Victorian version of the Burgundy Book.

LedaandtheSwan · 01/11/2020 07:21

@monkeytennis97 I sympathise but I am offering my opinion as you are offering yours. Your child has his needs as does mine. They are very different but no child is the same. I was merely commenting on my family situation. I look out for my child, you look out for yours.

I am a keyworker too. In contact with 100s of people daily. As is my husband. My brother is immuno-suppressed but working as a GPs receptionist so risks himself every day. We all know how to reduce the risk. Teachers know too. I don't think closing schools will do much to reduce the risk. If I sound patronising I apologise but I don't think keyworkers of any occupation should try and single themselves out for special treatment. We need to keep this country going.

YouJustDoYou · 01/11/2020 07:23

I am a keyworker too. In contact with 100s of people daily. As is my husband. My brother is immuno-suppressed but working as a GPs receptionist so risks himself every day. We all know how to reduce the risk. Teachers know too. I don't think closing schools will do much to reduce the risk. If I sound patronising I apologise but I don't think keyworkers of any occupation should try and single themselves out for special treatment. We need to keep this country going

This. I'm also a key worker (nursery staff). Completely don't understand why teachers think differently to every other key worker out there .

echt · 01/11/2020 07:29

Completely don't understand why teachers think differently to every other key worker out there

I completely don't understand how you know what teachers as group think, and how it is different to all other key workers.

I don't think keyworkers of any occupation should try and single themselves out for special treatment

The special treatment teachers on this thread want is to work in a safe environment. The special treatment they are being given is the government saying they should not wear masks when teaching 0- based on no evidence whatsoever and not funding the safe conduct of the schools they work in.

monkeytennis97 · 01/11/2020 07:32

@LedaandtheSwan it's not patronising it's just the tone, the caps on the words NEEDS . It just feels so entitled tbh. We all have needs but shouting it yet again feels like we are just everyone's catch all for childcare/social/mental health/child policing/keeping parents at work etc etc as well as education.

I went into this job because I love my subject and want to inspire kids in my subject. I feel that has got lost (hugely) along the road.

TheKeatingFive · 01/11/2020 07:46

The special treatment teachers on this thread want is to work in a safe environment.

And yet there appears to be no reference to basic measures that could be taken to make environments safer in the latest NEU statement.

Just closures. Or failing that, part closures.

BlueMarigold · 01/11/2020 07:47

I am not sure if schools should be shut completely but I feel that parents who are worried about Covid due to underlying health issues shouldn’t be fined for not sending children to school.

In my DD’s (secondary) schools, the teachers have to stay in a marked out area which the children aren’t allowed to cross. They can ask all the children to wear a mask and they can wear masks and face shields themselves if they wish.

What I find unfair is that each school seems to be dealing with it differently so whilst our teachers might feel perfectly safe, there are others who don’t. They are not allowed to wear masks or face shields and have to go closer to the children.

So whilst I don’t agree with a blanket, shut all schools, I think there needs to be some changes to make it fairer for all teachers and parents should not get pressured to send their children to school if they are shielding.

monkeytennis97 · 01/11/2020 07:48

@TheKeatingFive I refer you to my answer about 5 posts previous to this one.

TheKeatingFive · 01/11/2020 07:53

Well it is my union and they have been calling for improvement in safety for months but have been totally ignored.

And they think now is the time to up the ante and demand closures instead? At the very least their tactics are dreadful.

If they ran a campaign for better PPE, dropping all mentions of blended learning or closure threats, they would get far more parents behind them.

But working parents (at a minimum) can’t support what they’re suggesting and it wouldn’t take a genius to predict that.

monkeytennis97 · 01/11/2020 07:55

@TheKeatingFive well yes. I think they have cocked up here. The NASUWT have taken the approach you are saying (also a member of this union!) and I wonder how many parents are aware of this?

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 01/11/2020 07:59

The only reason to keep schools open would be to make it easier for the parents to work.

If everything is shut down then the schools can operate online.

TheKeatingFive · 01/11/2020 07:59

No I wasn’t aware, thanks for telling me. I think the majority of parents can get behind this, I hope they are able to get the message out there.

Flaxmeadow · 01/11/2020 08:01

I think young children, pre teens, should still attend school and not just for educational purposes.

For the economy (parents able to work), for a young childs interaction with their peers, and most importantly for risk assessment related to child abuse in the home

A teenager is more able to use social media, for learning and for interaction with friends. They are also more able to report abuse in the home to the authorities.

Pre teen children need the school environment much more, for their safety and well being

Before anyone says it's not a teachers job to monitor child welfare issues in the home. Yes it is their job and it's a very important part of their job and always has been since the education acts of the late 19th century

monkeytennis97 · 01/11/2020 08:03

@TheKeatingFive

No I wasn’t aware, thanks for telling me. I think the majority of parents can get behind this, I hope they are able to get the message out there.
They can't get the message out there. Radio silence generally from the media on education. Thank you for your support-if you can retweet NASUWT's latest statement if you are on Twitter or write to your mp about improving safety in schools that would be amazing!!
TheKeatingFive · 01/11/2020 08:04

Will do!

Flaxmeadow · 01/11/2020 08:08

feel let down they haven't balloted for strike action

You want a strike?

monkeytennis97 · 01/11/2020 08:09

@Flaxmeadow

feel let down they haven't balloted for strike action

You want a strike?

Yeah I'd be fine with it personally tbh. I've saved for a rainy day for a long time but I realise that's a selfish pov as many other teachers are not able to afford to strike.
monkeytennis97 · 01/11/2020 08:10

@TheKeatingFive here is their latest statement:

With levels of virus transmission increasing exponentially, the failure to deal with the threat of the virus has, once again, been fatally exposed.

“The second wave of this pandemic is putting even more lives at risk, and it has been clear for some weeks that coordinated and urgent national action would need to be taken to tackle a crisis that is now enveloping the entire country.

“Many will recognise that the Government’s failure to heed the warnings from leading scientists by reopening schools fully in September may have contributed to the increased spread of Covid-19 transmission and rising death rates over recent weeks.

“There is widespread evidence of rising Covid-19 transmissions within schools and that opening schools fully has acted as a vector for Coronavirus transmission in the wider community. It is vital that the Government recognises that schools and colleges must be part of a national strategy to tackle the continuing spread of the virus.

“The publication of advice by the Government has not been sufficient to prevent the spread of the virus in primary, secondary and special schools or in colleges.

“Determined and radical national action and additional measures are now needed across all schools and colleges.

“The Government’s view that it remains the case that schools should remain open fully will no doubt be viewed with concern by many parents and those working in schools, especially if the Government does not come forward in the coming days with additional Covid-safety measures for schools.

“In light of the mounting evidence, it is critical that, where there is an outbreak of Covid-19 transmission in a school, employers and public health bodies act swiftly and without hesitation to protect public health by sending pupils and staff home.

“Protecting the vulnerable also needs to be a priority. However, there remain serious concerns about the risks to teachers who are vulnerable to Covid-19 transmission, including teachers who are pregnant, or clinically extremely vulnerable, or who have underlying conditions or who are from higher risk groups such as BAME teachers.

“The Government will need to do more in the coming days to ensure that the most vulnerable are protected at this critical time. Ministers have said that people should work from home where possible and that those who have underlying health conditions or who are most at risk from the Coronavirus should stay at home. The same protections now need to be introduced urgently for those working in schools and colleges as apply to workers in other sectors.

“The Government has recklessly given up on the idea that social distancing can be maintained in schools, despite the evidence that this is the best protection against the spread of the Coronavirus. The Government needs to accept that ensuring smaller classes in schools must also be considered an essential element in the country’s strategy to get control of this worsening situation.

“The Government needs to be clear with the public about the evidence upon which it is relying to insist that keeping schools open fully will not impact adversely on children, their families, those working in schools or undermine the impact of the latest national lockdown measures in bringing down rates of Coronavirus transmission.

“In the event that more children or staff will need to be at home, the Government must also pull out all the stops to ensure that all children have effective access to remote education. So far, the Government has failed to deliver on its promises of laptops for children, which is seriously hampering the efforts that are being made by schools to support vulnerable and disadvantaged children during this crisis. An urgent national plan for remote education is needed which must be backed up by substantially additional resources for schools.

“Schools will also need urgent additional support if they are to get through to Christmas and remain safe to staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, PPE and for additional supply staff to cover where other teachers are absent.”

Flaxmeadow · 01/11/2020 08:13

Yeah I'd be fine with it personally tbh. I've saved for a rainy day for a long time but I realise that's a selfish pov as many other teachers are not able to afford to strike.

Yes it is selfish, not least because you seem totally unconcerned of the damage a strike would inflict on young children and you only seem to care about money

Bollss · 01/11/2020 08:19

@BlackPetunia

So let’s wait it out

If the figures and stats don’t drop then there’s no other option than to close schools.

And I think gov know this and are deliberately waiting until dec 2., which falls on a Wednesday

Thursday 3 dec we may then go to stricter lockdown, with parents blessing ( as 4 weeks didn’t work so most parents resigned to schools must now close, we tried) so we lockdown for the next 2 weeks which brings us to Christmas and then there 2 weeks off as well.

It’s effectively pushing us to a stricter lockdown over Christmas. Not many will comply

Brings us to new year and those from Christmas meet ups start to get sick, stats rise

Lockdown again....... schools open or closed?

They will never have my "blessing" to close schools.
HitchikersGuide · 01/11/2020 08:21

Schools should absolutely not close.

monkeytennis97 · 01/11/2020 08:24

@Flaxmeadow

Yeah I'd be fine with it personally tbh. I've saved for a rainy day for a long time but I realise that's a selfish pov as many other teachers are not able to afford to strike.

Yes it is selfish, not least because you seem totally unconcerned of the damage a strike would inflict on young children and you only seem to care about money

Oh do me a favour. I have repeatedly said this is with regards to secondary schools on multiple threads. I have no experience of primary school set ups so I can't talk for them but of course think the staff deserve the best mitigations possible. I want blended learning for years 8 and above. That would be a comfortable middle ground, with masks in classrooms for all at secondary.
allthingsred · 01/11/2020 08:26

Yabu
Just that YABU.
Of course they should stay open kids need an education and (in my experience ) they don't get that from reading a pdf or watching a video on BBC bitesize.

VashtaNerada · 01/11/2020 08:26

Completely don't understand why teachers think differently to every other key worker out there.
What an odd thing to say when the teachers on this thread (let alone in RL) all have different opinions on this subject. The same goes for all key workers actually.

Bollss · 01/11/2020 08:29

I can't imagine strike action is going to make parents all of a sudden supportive of teachers. Quite the opposite I should think.

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