'We won't be back to 2019 for five years'

[RainbowParadise]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54661843

Has anyone else seen this? I feel completely on the edge after reading this, people surely will not comply with this shit show indefinitely?

Sad to say but even scientists are getting their 15 minutes of fame right now - people who usually work in obscurity. If they gave conservative information they would likely not be quoted at all.

It's is incredibly hard when you have on one hand, SAGE clamouring for lockdowns. But then this:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/oct/20/sage-experts-warn-of-impact-of-covid-policies-on-young-generation-z-harm-pandemic-coronavirus

That's why I just think that all the decisions do need to be questioned- and everything looked at on balance. It doesn't mean I disagree with lockdowns. I definitely disagree with destroying life to prevent death though- in the medium and long term. And absolutely in protecting jobs. Let's face it, the government have been appalling. If nothing else they have made an absolute joke of inspiring public trust and confidence. Both of which would have gone a long way.

@RainbowParadise
Seeing as you appear to have all the answers, what do you suggest we do to get out of where we are now?
I

The more lockdowns that happen, the more jobs won't exist at the end of it, where does the money come from for furlough?

Unfortunately you won't get a sensible answer to that beyond "it'd be even worse if we allow Covid to rip" or "make Amazon/China/the rich pay"

Personally I believe it'll either be taxes to make the mind spin or back to the IMF with the begging bowl, but by the time the real bills come in the current politicians will probably be onto the speakers'/directorship circuit and making even more money, so why should they worry?

Ok let's calm down, what's needed is some rationale. We have never been in total lockdown and it's highly unlikely that will ever happen. (I'm going to assume that you don't need me to explain why)

Yes, it's possible this could go on for another year or so and the economic effects much longer.

People are wasting money because they refuse to stick to the restrictions. The less compliance the worse this gets the more the government has to spend. So if you care about the economy please do your best to comply wherever possible or stop using the economy as an excuse, please.

We are going through a very tough time, every country is feeling the effects (even NZ) economically and sadly there's nothing that can change that.

It will be ok, we just have to do what we can. Yes people will lose jobs and people will die of Covid and other things which under normal circumstances would not have happened. It's all fucking awful, but we are lucky in that we have a (albeit inadequate) benefits system and hopefully no one will go homeless, they may have to move/sell/live with relatives for a while, and whilst that's horrific for people in that situation it's no where near as bad as living on the streets. Some countries have none of that.

I know it's crap but this kind of I won't comply crap really doesn't help anyone, you can reason, bully, argue or be stubborn all you like but you're wasting your time here moaning (incessantly) about everything complaining your life is being taken away and yet all you do with what you have is sit on MN making everyone as angry, bitter and belligerent as yourselves. It's helping no one.

It's time to accept that this time you're not going to get what you want and learn to live with it, I promise you you'll be happier for it.

You don't have to comply, but do you really want long covid?

[quote user1496146479]@RainbowParadise
Seeing as you appear to have all the answers, what do you suggest we do to get out of where we are now?
I[/quote]
😂😂😂 did I say I had all the answers?

I can say what I think would have worked better. I think it was fucking ridiculous that Boris and his incompetent eton buddies left it so long to take is seriously. Because Boris doesn't like to take anything seriously. And because the tories don't want to spend money on anything, so wanted to ignore the entire situation. The irony being that doing so has cost everyone more, financially, psychologically etc.

I would have locked down sooner, when the virus wasn't so out of control, and stopped travel abroad. I wouldn't have discharged elderly patients with coronavirus back into care homes. I also would have allowed people to have more contact with friends/family, in a socially distanced way, earlier on in the late spring once rates of the virus had gone down following a full lockdown. This would have possibly meant that people would find it easier to continue complying with rules for longer if they are necessary. I'd have also accepted where there is a limit as to what is reasonable to expect people to do- socially distancing from strangers/work colleagues/ neighbours and true majority of friends etc being perfectly reasonable but not to allow people to see their partners was a step too far, also not allowing the very elderly, in particular people who were very close to death, to not see family, was frankly inhumane.

I'd have also spent the summer trying to think of alternative ways to deliver education for children throughout this autumn/winter, to maximise education and mental health benefits for them, and also to maximise their parents chances of still being able to work.

Right now- I dont see that there is an option but to lockdown and I hope that a month will really help the rates, and mean we can get that little bit closer to a vaccine. But I don't believe it's sustainable for lockdowns to continue beyond say, late next spring/summer? And lockdowns also need to perhaps consider what it is reasonable to ask people to do. The elderly being deprived of their family and partners not being able to see eachother overreaches what is acceptable.

@amusedtodeath1

Ok let's calm down, what's needed is some rationale. We have never been in total lockdown and it's highly unlikely that will ever happen. (I'm going to assume that you don't need me to explain why)

Yes, it's possible this could go on for another year or so and the economic effects much longer.

People are wasting money because they refuse to stick to the restrictions. The less compliance the worse this gets the more the government has to spend. So if you care about the economy please do your best to comply wherever possible or stop using the economy as an excuse, please.

We are going through a very tough time, every country is feeling the effects (even NZ) economically and sadly there's nothing that can change that.

It will be ok, we just have to do what we can. Yes people will lose jobs and people will die of Covid and other things which under normal circumstances would not have happened. It's all fucking awful, but we are lucky in that we have a (albeit inadequate) benefits system and hopefully no one will go homeless, they may have to move/sell/live with relatives for a while, and whilst that's horrific for people in that situation it's no where near as bad as living on the streets. Some countries have none of that.

I know it's crap but this kind of I won't comply crap really doesn't help anyone, you can reason, bully, argue or be stubborn all you like but you're wasting your time here moaning (incessantly) about everything complaining your life is being taken away and yet all you do with what you have is sit on MN making everyone as angry, bitter and belligerent as yourselves. It's helping no one.

It's time to accept that this time you're not going to get what you want and learn to live with it, I promise you you'll be happier for it.

😂😂😂

Spoken from a very privileged position I presume. Because you make it sound so simple!

@BabyLlamaZen

You don't have to comply, but do you really want long covid?

Ah, long Covid! MN's favourite 'gotcha' argument!

All viral illnesses can cause post-viral syndrome. Covid is no different. I don't actively want it, no. But I don't live my life in fear of it.

Do you?

@BabyLlamaZen

You don't have to comply, but do you really want long covid?

I don't think anybody wants long covid, but I think if the price of avoiding long covid is "wear a mask and socially distance from your family for five/ten years", most people will absolutely think that price is not worth paying.

But the more lockdowns that happen, the more jobs won't exist at the end of it, where does the money come from for furlough?

This lockdown over November is designed to get us through the winter without collapsing the NHS.

We should have had an extended half term lockdown instead but here we are.

Think I read the spanish flu came in three waves and lasted two years.

@BabyLlamaZen

You don't have to comply, but do you really want long covid?

No I don't want long covid. Although I'm not sure if I've already had corona and some kind of very mild post viral thing ever since.

I think for a lot of people it really does reach a point where the risks become meaningless because life has become so crappy anyway, they feel they don't have anything to lose.

I don't know if you read my post earlier about my experiences of the past few years, of my abusive marriage etc. But all I can say is that mentally, the effects of lockdown are by far the bigger threat to me. To be quite honest if I didn't have my DC, I really feel like I don't care what happens to me very much either way, I have to be here for them so because of that, I'd quite like for life to not feel like torture every day.

People are wasting money because they refuse to stick to the restrictions. The less compliance the worse this gets the more the government has to spend. So if you care about the economy please do your best to comply wherever possible or stop using the economy as an excuse, please.

People in Spain 'complied' with a very strict lockdown, including confining children to small apartments for weeks. People in France 'complied' with their strict lockdown. How are they doing now? Not that great, last time I checked.

It will be ok, we just have to do what we can.

For many thousands of people, it won't be OK. It's very patronising of you to preach to people like this, and daft of you to suppose that anyone is listening.

@IcedPurple 100% agree. In fact the Spanish people are so angry they are protesting. It is NOT ok to lock children indoors for months. The Italians and French are protesting too.

Anyone that says if everyone just behaved themselves we'd be ok!!! Really!!!! You're all fucking idiots if you think that. You cannot control this virus like that.

Whether people agree with others opinions or not as to how our governments choose to deal with over the coming months and years, it is the lack of empathy from some on these threads that I find truly disgusting tbh. The idea that all we are being asked to do is 'stay in and watch tv'. And 'the wartime generation had it much worse'. Does everything have to be a race to the bottom? Do you imagine that no one then complained about being fed up of the war? That everyone at the time complied with all of the rules? Fwiw, one of the things I feel quite sad about it that what is left of the wartime generation are spending the end of their lives in some cases with very little contact with their families and friends and not being able to enjoy the things they usually would.

Tommy Chong has the answer:

[quote onedayinthefuture]@IcedPurple 100% agree. In fact the Spanish people are so angry they are protesting. It is NOT ok to lock children indoors for months. The Italians and French are protesting too.

Anyone that says if everyone just behaved themselves we'd be ok!!! Really!!!! You're all fucking idiots if you think that. You cannot control this virus like that.[/quote]
Lockdowns where you can't leave the front door for this virus are not right. Our lockdown in March-May was fair, the problem was we left it too long which made it harder to come out the other side of it.

The second wave in the winter was inevitable but again we've sleepwalked into it.

In what ways do you think life has changed irrevocably?

You know those threads where a poster is saying how awfully their husband treats them and there are those who not only lack empathy but feel the need to say it would never happen to them? Or that they would never not manage financially because their partner wouldn’t support their children? Or someone who’s life is turned upside down when their partner dies but they discover not being married means they miss out financially?

It’s like that. That millions of people have just found out that nothing is certain in life and you can do all the right things but for reasons out of your control, your life just implodes. That we suddenly all know what it is to have made choices that now affect our futures - and some of us got lucky and are lives won’t change much and others are facing losing neverything.

Like we all grew up at once. That we now genuinely understand what ‘shit happens’ actually means.

@Enoughnowstop

In what ways do you think life has changed irrevocably?

You know those threads where a poster is saying how awfully their husband treats them and there are those who not only lack empathy but feel the need to say it would never happen to them? Or that they would never not manage financially because their partner wouldn’t support their children? Or someone who’s life is turned upside down when their partner dies but they discover not being married means they miss out financially?

It’s like that. That millions of people have just found out that nothing is certain in life and you can do all the right things but for reasons out of your control, your life just implodes. That we suddenly all know what it is to have made choices that now affect our futures - and some of us got lucky and are lives won’t change much and others are facing losing neverything.

Like we all grew up at once. That we now genuinely understand what ‘shit happens’ actually means.

Except some people seem to have no understanding or empathy as to why others are terrified of another lockdown, and of losing their jobs/their children's mental health/many other reasons.

We're all just selfish apparently.

It is possible to have both strict enforcement of rules and compassion. I spent much of first lockdown in E Asian country that had huge fines and even jail time for breaking restrictions. However there were exceptions for providing care for elderly or sick relatives. They policed rules but had flexibility in difficult cases. It did require govt to invest money in manpower to manage all this though.

Similarly, patients in hospitals were allowed a small number of visitors. This was manageable (without risk of hospital outbreaks) because they kept community cases low.

[quote onedayinthefuture]@IcedPurple 100% agree. In fact the Spanish people are so angry they are protesting. It is NOT ok to lock children indoors for months. The Italians and French are protesting too.

Anyone that says if everyone just behaved themselves we'd be ok!!! Really!!!! You're all fucking idiots if you think that. You cannot control this virus like that.[/quote]
This

You're all fucking idiots if you think that. You cannot control this virus like that

@onedayinthefuture - what the fuck is your solution then brainiac? Obviously it’s one that keeps everyone happy.

Well, Boris has spoken. Another lockdown month to get through.

I was born in the 1950s and much of the 'deprivation' people are angry about was just normal life. People didn't have cars so no popping to theatre or whatever. Or popping to relatives if they lived avdistance away. You walked/ bussed to the shops then carried it all home. Much plainer diet. Hardly anyone went to uni. You worked local to where you lived with wives often at home alone.
It is shit just now but I remember my childhood as pleasanter than DCs now pre covid.
No 24 hour live streaming news probably helped, what you don't know doesn't bother you.