Do people realise Coronavirus won't be eliminated

[Shockhorrorno]

And they'll always be lots of Coronavirus deaths every year? I get the feeling people think it's going to magically disappear when a vaccine appears, but at best we'll still have Coronavirus deaths similar to flu and pneumonia. And people will still catch it and be left with long covid. Is it time for a reality check on what we're actually going to be able to achieve?

I had a non emergency surgical procedure cancelled earlier in the year due to Covid. It has been rescheduled and is going ahead next week. I'm in London. When I called the relevant department to double check they were quite clear that they were getting things back on track.

This is a very condescending opening to a thread.

That's a huge IF WiseUpJanetWeiss. It is not me who is making these claims about the NHS being on the verge of collapse. It is you. Yet you offer no proof to support your silly claims apart from a few stories you have read on the internet. That's not proof of anything, it just tells us hospitals are busy.
Please stop spreading lies, it does not help anybody.

I don’t get my information from the tabloids or the “internet”. You have no clue what it’s like actually in the NHS. Please stop spreading lies.

Yes.
Do you realise it'll be a little easier once we have got through this winter, improved treatments and maybe started a small vaccination programme?

Shockhorrorno

“It is true. We were sold not overwhelming the NHS back in March to trying to prevent ALL Covid deaths today.“
What makes you think the government are trying to prevent all Covid deaths, or have I misunderstood you?

@toxtethOgradyUSA Will your employers cut your pay if you stop being a dick? You make shit up then accuse others of doing the same.

I bloody hate that social media and liars like Johnson and Trump have made the kind of bullshit that you spout so ubiquitous.

I hate even more that some idiots lap it up.

@EarlySignsOfSpring

Yes obviously, but the hope is that a reasonably effective vaccine could reduce circulating levels to the point that we can all behave normally again, with a relatively low chance of getting it.

What I have learned about the virus, I am convinced that 'normal' will be a new normal for years to come. I think face masks, social distancing etc are here to stay in various forms. A vaccine will take the edge off hopefully. But what used to be normal e.g. large crowds in enclosed spaces without any protection won't be normal going forward, I think.

Well we can't know at this point, but let's really hope you're wrong.

@LastTrainEast

There's a basic issue with some people's evaluation of situations/risks. If you go to great lengths to stop a disaster happening then they complain that those great lengths were not needed "as it didn't happen"

The thinking goes that relatively few people die in low speed collisions. Therefore we don't need seatbelts as those were intended to help people survive in low speed collisions.

Of course we know that the reason that relatively few people die in low speed collisions IS because of seatbelts, but this doesn't seem to sink in. They may even say "well I drove all day without a seatbelt and I didn't die".

"The health system has never come remotely close to collapsing" is an example of that thinking. Who knows if it would have, but it was a possibility and we did some things to decrease the likelihood.

Wearing a seat belt isn't a mistake just because you've never had a crash.

Well said. It appears to be some kind of psychological phenomenon that affects a lot of people's (but not everyone's obviously) thinking.

The penny hasn't dropped that every year we have a problem with hospitals running at close to capacity in January due to flu season and that covid causes more hospitalisations. So the problem we have this year with beds, isn't going to be this year even with a vaccine because a) the vaccine is only going to be offered to certain groups but not everyone b) we are unlikely to have rolled out a vaccine program to everyone in time for next autumn.

So this means issues next year if track and trace performs as well as this year.

After that we still may have problems: the flu vaccine is only effective for 50% of people who do have it and until we know differently this has to really be a working assumption for a covid vaccine.

The only alternative to this is mass testing to detect assymptomatic cases in an effort to prevent outbreaks popping up unexpectedly.

This is actually the area which government policy is right now. They are trying to launch these systems. However the pilot is still doing far to few tests and rollout of the kind of numbers needes is still some way off (which gives you some indication of what the situation is for next year is already and where planning is at.)

I think some people are in denial of the fact that learning to live with the virus is exactly what we're already doing. We're at the stage of lurching between having too few public health measures and having damagingly strict ones, because we haven't yet managed to work out the right level of restrictions to keep infection levels roughly constant rather than accelerating upwards.

When we've worked out a way of living that keeps infection rates stable, at a level we can cope with medically, then we'll be able to say we've successfully learned to live with it. Hopefully better treatments, testing regimes like RTB is talking about, and vaccines will all gradually help us reach that stability with fewer and fewer social and economic restrictions.

What we can't do is function successfully as a society with infection rates accelerating upwards as they are now, and with the resulting increases in illness hospitalisations. That is not successfully living with a new disease, it's completely failing to manage it.

@HesterShaw1

What a pity the government didn't use the last eight months to actually increase NHS capacity, but here we are again.

That's it, in a completely nutshell. Thank you.

It takes longer than 8 months to train up new staff in the NHS (which is the main barrier to capacity - nightingale beds are useless without staff) Most of us have done degrees for 3 years plus quite a lot of clinical experience.....

It takes longer than 8 months to train up new staff in the NHS (which is the main barrier to capacity - nightingale beds are useless without staff) Most of us have done degrees for 3 years plus quite a lot of clinical experience.....

Well obviously. I talked about that very thing on another thread.

However, that's not a reason to not start doing it. Think of all the countless billions that are being thrown at trying to mitigate the effects of of repeated lockdowns - it's no more than firefighting. That money is going nowhere, whereas starting to invest it in long term NHS and public health projects will pay dividends in the long run with a healthier population, more able to withstand diseases like Covid.

But this country is time and again sold the lie by the Tory press than investing in public health is Bad.

Welsh labour and plaid cymru still believe they can 'elliminate covid' we are in for a rough ride here is this is what they believe

"Senedd backs call to eliminate Covid

A majority of Senedd politicians backed the firebreak lockdown in a vote on Tuesday evening - 37 for to 16 against.

The vote's text included a call from Plaid Cymru - which won three amendments to the motion - for a strategy based on eliminating the virus. Conservative members were among those voting against the main motion."

@EgonSpengler2020

Welsh labour and plaid cymru still believe they can 'elliminate covid' we are in for a rough ride here is this is what they believe

"Senedd backs call to eliminate Covid

A majority of Senedd politicians backed the firebreak lockdown in a vote on Tuesday evening - 37 for to 16 against.

The vote's text included a call from Plaid Cymru - which won three amendments to the motion - for a strategy based on eliminating the virus. Conservative members were among those voting against the main motion."

I despair, I really do. How can they be so stupid? Do any of these people have an ounce of common sense or any kind of scientific background?

@HesterShaw1
Senedd backs call to eliminate Covid
A majority of Senedd politicians backed the firebreak lockdown in a vote on Tuesday evening - 37 for to 16 against.
The vote's text included a call from Plaid Cymru - which won three amendments to the motion - for a strategy based on eliminating the virus. Conservative members were among those voting against the main motion
I've literally just lost the will to live

It takes longer than 8 months to train up new staff in the NHS (which is the main barrier to capacity - nightingale beds are useless without staff) Most of us have done degrees for 3 years plus quite a lot of clinical experience.....

Sure, but would it take 8 months to train somebody with the specific solitary task of treating somebody with symptoms of Covid in the Nightingales?

Welsh labour and plaid cymru still believe they can 'elliminate covid'

Not science fans then?
I suppose once they've starved the entire Welsh nation to death there'll be no-one left to catch it, maybe that's the plan.

[head tilt]

OP, haven't you realised that if we all hide at home for ever, and never go to work or do anything meaningful ever again, we will never, ever become ill or die? The Magic Money tree will pay for everything. Immortality will be ours, as soon as the Almighty Vaccine appears (because immortality is feasible and desirable).

Alternatively: you are absolutely spot on.

To be fair to Welsh politicians, this was the kind of bullshit strategy that the SNP were spouting all summer. Even they have since realised that it is a non starter.

Errr... yes, but when there is a vaccine the idea is that you will be significantly less likely to catch it.

@MummyPop00

It takes longer than 8 months to train up new staff in the NHS (which is the main barrier to capacity - nightingale beds are useless without staff) Most of us have done degrees for 3 years plus quite a lot of clinical experience.....

Sure, but would it take 8 months to train somebody with the specific solitary task of treating somebody with symptoms of Covid in the Nightingales?

Are you actually joking?

Covid patients in a hospital need nurses, doctors, physiotherapists, HCAs, dietitians, radiographers, OTs, SLTs, porters, pharmacists, phlebotomists - just like every other sick person in a hospital.

There's nothing special about covid that means you can go on a quick course to learn how to look after people with it 🙄🤷‍♀️

Do people actually think hospital work is this simplistic? I actually despair.

@shitonitbambinos

No need to be condescending, I didn’t know whether deploying with a limited brief was possible during a pandemic situation hence the question.

Fecking hell. If everybody needs that lot no wonder the NHS is constantly underfunded & running close to capacity. I’m amazed they have time to get round all the patients.

@Thingybob

I don't think the majority do realise. People I talk to are still speaking about "when we get back to normal"

We will go back to normal and live with it like every other virus

@Holyrivolli

You would think it’s obvious but you do get the “lives over economy, education, job” people on here who are financially illiterate and think that any lockdown measure is worth doing to protect (normally themselves) from catching covid. Rational people realise it’s a shit situation and we can’t completely control the virus so will need to tweak lockdown and accept a certain amount of death as a price worth paying for having a functioning economy which protects more people. That doesn’t make them granny killers - just people who don’t prioritise avoiding covid deaths over everything else.

So true

@littlepeas

I do think there are people who think that it will go away and we will never have to live with it as an endemic virus - this is completely deluded. It will eventually become another winter bug that some people catch (and some people die from) every year, like flu or norovirus.

Exactly saying that I never had norivurus until I had kids and never had the flu (so far)