Do people realise Coronavirus won't be eliminated

[Shockhorrorno]

And they'll always be lots of Coronavirus deaths every year? I get the feeling people think it's going to magically disappear when a vaccine appears, but at best we'll still have Coronavirus deaths similar to flu and pneumonia. And people will still catch it and be left with long covid. Is it time for a reality check on what we're actually going to be able to achieve?

I would think that any reasonably intelligent person will have understood that it will likely always exist and that many of us will catch it in the future. Some people still catch the plague, after all.
New Zealand will not be aiming to remain Covid free forever, just until either a treatment or vaccine is available.

@lljkk

There was a discussion this morning on Radio 4 about living with Risk. About autonomy for different levels of risk. I can't stand Clare Fox but I agreed strongly with a few things she said (though not all she said). About how risk comes with responsibility. And risk is something normal in life, why the Precautionary Principle can go to extremes that are unacceptable too. It was one of the more adult conversations I've heard about the trade offs we're making, but also the philosophical foundations of how decisions are being made at moment.

I know I'm in a minority & I don't try to change the world.

Completely agree with you on this llijk

And I also like the way you say you can't stand her normally, but you agree with her on this. There is a tendency nowadays for people to completely dismiss everything someone says because that person have expressed certain views in the past they disagree with. As though they are tainted by association. Can't we be a bit more grown up than that?

@Lavendersy

I think those proposing school closures and various lockdowns need to realise that this will not eliminate the virus or the problem.

We absolutely need to learn to live with the risks which are very small for the majority.

The restrictions are to prevent the health system collapsing. Once a vaccine is available this will help but obviously does not instantly make a virus disappear! Our health system is what we rely on to deal with all the other non covid emergencies and medical conditions. How many times do people need to told this.

I do think there are people who think that it will go away and we will never have to live with it as an endemic virus - this is completely deluded. It will eventually become another winter bug that some people catch (and some people die from) every year, like flu or norovirus.

I think most people mean getting our personal freedoms back forever, rather than elimination of the virus.

Risk is of one the things that most humans are incapable of assessing in a rational way unfortunately, something that we would not normally be aware of but can't help but notice at the moment!

I for one think the right line is being taken at the moment (even though I have never and would never vote tory). The balance is maximising freedoms vs not overwhelming the NHS and its a very fine line.

Yes, but I expect eventually it will be thought of as another unpleasant and potentially lethal illness, with potential long-lasting effects like getting flu or pneumonia and there will be annual vaccinations for those most at risk.

Perhaps we will always also be more aware of the risks of passing on viruses and there will be mask-wearing in some circumstances, maybe on public transport or any crowded situation.

I mean, I would have thought this was common sense, but the more time I spend on social media, the more I think I've been overestimating people's common sense, to be honest.

I've seen several people say things like if we'd locked down sooner it'd be gone by now, or they can't wait for covid to be gone, or they can't wait for this to be over.

The fact is that this will NEVER be over. The most likely scenario is that they'll make a huge deal of getting people vaccinated when available and they'll gradually stop talking about it and just allow covid to mix in with the hundreds of different viruses we can catch on any given day. So people will think it's gone, or over, but it won't be.

I think people are coming to realise that what we're doing now, the isolation, the lockdowns etc, is completely unsustainable in the long term, and just cannot be allowed to go on. There has to be a point (which I think should have been reached months ago) where those in charge realise that, actually, more damage is being done thanks to the measures than the actual virus itself.

I myself had/have long covid. My business has been completely destroyed due to lack of demand thanks to the pandemic. It is the business side of things that is causing me the most distress, and that will probably affect me further into the future.

I would happily wear a mask in all public places to help protect those more vulnerable than myself, and it should be standard practice to avoid being out in public when you have symptoms of a virus whichever virus it is. Those who could potentially be vulnerable should be supported by their families and relevant professionals to safely get back to normal as far as they can, but beyond that, things do need to start getting back to normal. People in hospital need to be allowed visitors again. Women going for scans need their partners by their side. GPs need to examine patients instead of only allowing phone consultations.

This has gone on long enough. These measures would be fine if they mean the virus would go away, but that's just not the case.

And perhaps more men will actually wash their hands, given the statistics.

A lot of people don't seem to realise. I know someone who's planning a 500 people wedding for May next year

The restrictions are to prevent the health system collapsing

This, a million times. It's been said over and over and over.

No-one I speak to thinks it will be eliminated, but that we'll be able to manage it. That's why we've got restrictions, to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed and the catastrophic loss of life from that happening (from covid and non covid - if there aren't enough staff or ambulances or beds, there's really not a lot that can be done). The problem with coronavirus is that it's a novel infection in a population with no immunity at all and so can overwhelm the health system.

How long and how many times will we have to lock down to "prevent the health system collapsing"?

How about, you know, using the fuck ton of money we are flinging at the effects of lockdown, we use some of to actually invest in the health service so it doesn't "collapse". Every bloody autumn we are told that certain hospitals are close to "collapse"? Why is this ok with people?

Yes someone will loftily tell me that it takes years to invest in the NHS so that is no good now. So how about we bloody well start now, so that we don't have keep locking down in the future? Oh yes, because there won't be any money, because of all these ridiculous and unsustainable lockdowns.

If there is anything we have learned in the last 8 months, it's that you can't slash health spending to the bone and expect it to actually be a health "service". At the moment it is nothing but a covid service. Why do you think Germany's numbers are so much better than ours? Possibly because they have better health provision and they were able to treat people earlier back in the spring, rather than telling them they had to stay away from the health "service" in order to "protect" it?

Yes i know of several friends who think it will disappear, one got quite nasty when i said we needed to learn to live with it.

And the restrictions are not to prevent the health service collapsing for its own sake. It's to try and mask the fact that the NHS is in such a shit state. It's a political move.

People honestly think that this government actually cares about old and vulnerable people dying? Of course they don't. They care more that it's happening on their watch.

"Learning to live with it" cannot mean the country shutting down every time there is an outbreak. We need much better ways of learning to live with it than that.

Many are still in denial.

They choose to think lockdowns will magically fix the issue and that a functioning, safe vaccine will also magically appear in the New Year.

Or that there is no consequence to destroying jobs, preventing the treatment of other conditions & creating a mental health crisis.

To me that is just completely illogical and allows government to continue their mishandling of the pandemic and repeat the same mistakes..without having to finally fix track and trace/testing and be honest with people.

Somewhere down the line people seem to have forgotten that people die everyday of other conditions and covid is one more health threat we have to add to that.

It is completely naive to think that the spread is caused by rule breakers only and that it would be over with compliance.

It is a virus, there is no stopping it.

The NHS has been underfunded for years and they have had months to get the Nightingale hospital up and running or to force private hospital to join the fight...the virus only made the existing rot in our healthcare system worse. It did not cause it.

The NHS is in a shit state but this is the system we have to deal with at this time. We have far less beds available in normal times than most other European countries. This is the main reason for restrictions.

I admit that I don’t really understand this.

I’m not scared of catching Spanish Flu, Swine Flu, SARS or MERS. As far as I’m concerned, they were terrifying once, but I longer have to worry about them (at least in the UK). Why will Covid 19 be different?

Yes, obviously we're too far in terms of restrictions/precautions at the moment, but when deaths are rising, that's hardly surprising.

But neither should we go back to how we were a year ago, with basics like not handwashing, not using tissues to catch sneezes, crowds/herding, etc being commonplace acceptable.

I think Covid has highlighted just how unhygienic things had been allowed to get to. Who seriously thought that being stood in crowded public transport, your nose an inch away from someone's armpit was acceptable? Who thought that tens of thousands crowded into fields, sports stadia, theatres, etc with not a mm between them was a good idea?

Likewise restaurant/hotel buffets catering for hundreds where food was left in the open, people touching it and putting it back, etc etc causing germs to spread freely.

What is needed is to find the balance. If we go back to how we were, yes, we may control Covid with herd immunity or vacinnations or better treatment, but there'll be anohter virus along shortly and the whole pantomime will start again.

@mrshoho

The NHS is in a shit state but this is the system we have to deal with at this time. We have far less beds available in normal times than most other European countries. This is the main reason for restrictions.

So why do several other European countries have similar or stricter restrictions?

I was in hospital for a long time last year. There was a lot of capacity. I was able to have my own room and the ward had plenty of empty beds.

But... that was this time last year - and not the height of the flu season. The problem is the seasonal spike in admissions. At least this year with people staying in and increased uptake of flu jab there will be fewer flu patients which will leave more capacity for Covid patients.

I think it is good practice to use the Nightingale hospitals for rehab purposes for non-acute Covid patients.

I absolutely agree all the money being chucked at everything else should be ploughed into the healthcare system. I do think an awful lot of people seem more than happy to see everything being decimated to stop the NHS being overwhelmed.

Couldn't of said it better myself

@LindaEllen
I would happily wear a mask in all public places to help protect those more vulnerable than myself, and it should be standard practice to avoid being out in public when you have symptoms of a virus whichever virus it is.

I particularly agree with this. However, to get to that point we do need to look at things like employment practices where people feel they have to drag themselves into work no matter how ill they or their household are for fear of losing their job. The same goes for recuperation periods. It is standard in many employment situations for people to feel obliged to drag themselves back to work the second they can just about shuffle their feet into their slippers.

Over the last couple of decades all the employers I have worked for have stripped staffing levels to the bone. Now there is no 'spare' left in the system to cover holidays let alone sick leave.

Staffing is a big issue. Staff either ill or isolating is putting pressure on many countries.

I posted this on another thread. It is our health system's ability to deal with the virus that is driving the restrictions.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54712003

@GnomeDePlume

Over the last couple of decades all the employers I have worked for have stripped staffing levels to the bone. Now there is no 'spare' left in the system to cover holidays let alone sick leave.

Agreed - we’ve been refused holidays unless you are management, since April.