Do people realise Coronavirus won't be eliminated

[Shockhorrorno]

And they'll always be lots of Coronavirus deaths every year? I get the feeling people think it's going to magically disappear when a vaccine appears, but at best we'll still have Coronavirus deaths similar to flu and pneumonia. And people will still catch it and be left with long covid. Is it time for a reality check on what we're actually going to be able to achieve?

I'm not saying this because I think it's necessarily right but at some point we are probably going to just have to live with it. By that I mean go back to relative normality and perhaps accept that life (and good health) is slightly more fragile that it was 12 months ago.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54688846

And look at Belgium. They may have to keep covid positives drs and medical staff treating patients to stop hospitals from collapsing. They have a quarter of staff absent currently.

Who really would find that an acceptable part of living with the virus at this stage? Surely it's better to keep restrictions in place over Winter.

Social distancing and masks hasn’t reduced this second wave

How do you know? Without these measures, we'd be in the 1000s of deaths a day by now I expect.

The only reason deaths are going up slower than in March / April is because we have some measures in many settings. The reason we're not keeping levels down like say in Maine, USA, is because measures aren't everywhere (e.g. schools).

The virus is here to stay. As a society, we have to learn to mitigate against the effects of this as much as possible.

We can't lockdown again, it doesn't help the situation because as soon as you lift lockdown, the numbers shoot up again.

Locking down even for four weeks will seriously harm the economy, people's livelihoods and people's health! There is no doubt that long-term state of fear and stress affect people's mental and physical health leaving scars in people's lives and bodies. As a society we have been in a state of fear for 8 months and counting. Headlines screaming we will all be in lockdown over Christmas cause fear, apprehension and anger.

Yet, years of public health research has shown that you can't win the public's compliance long-term through fear and threats and that people are more likely to adhere to health measures with positive messages.

Prevention and infection control needs to be implemented smartly and in a targeted way. You can't keep expecting the population to follow draconian rules indefinitely. Instead, you have to win the public's trust and compliance and work towards high compliance of low key (yet effective) measures e.g. face masks, social distancing and lightning fast, reliable testing and if needed as short as possible periods of self isolation.

At this point in time, the best way forward is to focus interventions on vulnerable groups, care homes, hospitals in-patients and those with chronic conditions and certain age groups. Money needs to be invested in supporting vulnerable people living at home by enabling them to WFH, shop online and providing high grade PPE and easy testing so that those in vulnerable groups are still able to socialise in a safe way.

The rest of society, school children, young adults and many others need to get on with life in an as uninterrupted way as possible. WFH should be normalised. We have the tech to do this, rather than commuting to offices 5 days a week, maybe people go in once or twice a week, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Schools should have access to corona testing kits so that if they suspect and outbreak, testing can happen quickly and easily. Shorten self isolation to 7 days. This will allow the virus to spread, yes, but possibly less than people not SI at all as they can't afford to hide away their whole household repeatedly for 14 days.

@IloveJKRowling

Social distancing and masks hasn’t reduced this second wave

How do you know? Without these measures, we'd be in the 1000s of deaths a day by now I expect.

The only reason deaths are going up slower than in March / April is because we have some measures in many settings. The reason we're not keeping levels down like say in Maine, USA, is because measures aren't everywhere (e.g. schools).

That's pure conjecture IloveJKRowling You're making it up as you go along now.

The health system has never come remotely close to collapsing, yet people keep on peddling this bullshit with absolutely nothing to substantiate it apart from limited anecdotal evidence.

^ This^ is bullshit. Hospitals in the NW are already close to collapse and it’s only October. The Manchester Nightingale is opening as overspill - if the Trusts can staff it. Which they can’t.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

The health system has never come remotely close to collapsing, yet people keep on peddling this bullshit with absolutely nothing to substantiate it apart from limited anecdotal evidence.

^ This^ is bullshit. Hospitals in the NW are already close to collapse and it’s only October. The Manchester Nightingale is opening as overspill - if the Trusts can staff it. Which they can’t.

Hospitals are busy. Hospitals are not close to collapse (whatever that even means). What are we saying, hospitals will close? WiseUpJanetWeiss come back to this thread when just ONE hospital has closed because of all this. Just one. In the meantime, stop peddling misinformation and sensationalist claptrap you've read in the tabloids.

@Shockhorrorno

And they'll always be lots of Coronavirus deaths every year? I get the feeling people think it's going to magically disappear when a vaccine appears, but at best we'll still have Coronavirus deaths similar to flu and pneumonia. And people will still catch it and be left with long covid. Is it time for a reality check on what we're actually going to be able to achieve?

I’m not expecting it to disappear. I am hoping for a vaccine that will protect the more vulnerable, so that most of the people who do get it are not terribly sick. I am expecting us to be in a much better position in the spring.

I am also expecting a significant death toll and collapse of healthcare in the intervening months because too many people are ignoring the distancing measures.

I want to go to New Zealand in early 2022 but expect to have to prove vaccination status to go there.

Learning to live with it means mitigating risks as effectively as possible. This hasn’t been done.

It doesn’t have to be a choice between mass death and disability or arbitrary blanket rules.
Currently it’s big casualties and big disruption.

@EarlySignsOfSpring well put.

@Thingybob

I don't think the majority do realise. People I talk to are still speaking about "when we get back to normal"

We live alongside hundreds of infectious diseases. There is no need to entirely eliminate one disease with a low mortality rate in order to 'get back to normal'.

It probably won't be totally eliminated, but that doesn't mean that we won't be able to manage it far better than we are now if vaccines, effective treatments and rapid testing come along.

@IloveJKRowling how do you know we’d be in the 1000’s, we have better treatment and other factors now too.
If wearing masks, social distancing and extra hand hygiene means we have 500 deaths a day by Christmas, which was suggested on the lunchtime news then I would not call that a success!

Hospitals are not close to collapse (whatever that even means). What are we saying, hospitals will close?
WiseUpJanetWeiss come back to this thread when just ONE hospital has closed because of all this. Just one.
In the meantime, stop peddling misinformation and sensationalist claptrap you've read in the tabloids.

Hospitals temporarily close their A&Es occasionally during normal winters. Surgery is often cancelled owing to lack of beds, especially ICU beds. Trolley waits in corridors are common during winter bed crises. If all hospitals in a locality find themselves in the same situation because they are accommodating extra Covid patients, or their staff are off sick, the system will collapse.

You clearly know absolutely fuck all about how the health service works. Please stop peddling misinformation and denialist claptrap.

Currently it’s big casualties and big disruption.

Yes! So ineffective!

Quote fail.

@toxtethOgradyUSA

Hospitals are not close to collapse (whatever that even means). What are we saying, hospitals will close?
WiseUpJanetWeiss come back to this thread when just ONE hospital has closed because of all this. Just one.
In the meantime, stop peddling misinformation and sensationalist claptrap you've read in the tabloids.

Hospitals temporarily close their A&Es occasionally during normal winters. Surgery is often cancelled owing to lack of beds, especially ICU beds. Trolley waits in corridors are common during winter bed crises. If all hospitals in a locality find themselves in the same situation because they are accommodating extra Covid patients, or their staff are off sick, the system will collapse.

You clearly know absolutely fuck all about how the health service works. Please stop peddling misinformation and denialist claptrap.

toxtethOgradyUSA

"That's the lie we were sold back in March (and the more gullible among the population still actually believe it)"

Do you believe the lie was put in place by the lizards who rule the world or visiting aliens?

If you were thinking just meanness on the part of the government you're going to feel really silly when you find out this is worldwide. Google it. It's not just in the UK and our government doing things you don't like.

@LastTrainEast

toxtethOgradyUSA

"That's the lie we were sold back in March (and the more gullible among the population still actually believe it)"

Do you believe the lie was put in place by the lizards who rule the world or visiting aliens?

If you were thinking just meanness on the part of the government you're going to feel really silly when you find out this is worldwide. Google it. It's not just in the UK and our government doing things you don't like.

How highly original LastTrainEast . Somebody does not agree with you so they must be part of the David Icke Brigade. Do you actually have any original or independent thoughts of your own?

Hospitals are busy.
Hospitals are not close to collapse (whatever that even means). What are we saying, hospitals will close?
WiseUpJanetWeiss come back to this thread when just ONE hospital has closed because of all this. Just one.
In the meantime, stop peddling misinformation and sensationalist claptrap you've read in the tabloids.

The Trust I work for will be cancelling all non-emergency surgery within the next couple of weeks, as will the other Trust in our (tier 1) city. What is that if not effectively closing hospitals? Where will people get their treatment? And it's not even like there's a private sector at the moment. Diagnostics also in a perilous state.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

Quote fail.

@toxtethOgradyUSA

Hospitals are not close to collapse (whatever that even means). What are we saying, hospitals will close?
WiseUpJanetWeiss come back to this thread when just ONE hospital has closed because of all this. Just one.
In the meantime, stop peddling misinformation and sensationalist claptrap you've read in the tabloids.

Hospitals temporarily close their A&Es occasionally during normal winters. Surgery is often cancelled owing to lack of beds, especially ICU beds. Trolley waits in corridors are common during winter bed crises. If all hospitals in a locality find themselves in the same situation because they are accommodating extra Covid patients, or their staff are off sick, the system will collapse.

You clearly know absolutely fuck all about how the health service works. Please stop peddling misinformation and denialist claptrap.

That's a huge IF WiseUpJanetWeiss. It is not me who is making these claims about the NHS being on the verge of collapse. It is you. Yet you offer no proof to support your silly claims apart from a few stories you have read on the internet. That's not proof of anything, it just tells us hospitals are busy. Please stop spreading lies, it does not help anybody.

@LindaEllen completely agree with you!

There's a basic issue with some people's evaluation of situations/risks. If you go to great lengths to stop a disaster happening then they complain that those great lengths were not needed "as it didn't happen"

The thinking goes that relatively few people die in low speed collisions. Therefore we don't need seatbelts as those were intended to help people survive in low speed collisions.

Of course we know that the reason that relatively few people die in low speed collisions IS because of seatbelts, but this doesn't seem to sink in. They may even say "well I drove all day without a seatbelt and I didn't die".

"The health system has never come remotely close to collapsing" is an example of that thinking. Who knows if it would have, but it was a possibility and we did some things to decrease the likelihood.

Wearing a seat belt isn't a mistake just because you've never had a crash.

Some areas are already having to cut back on other operations, I think that is cause for concern for all of us.

Yes obviously, but the hope is that a reasonably effective vaccine could reduce circulating levels to the point that we can all behave normally again, with a relatively low chance of getting it.

What I have learned about the virus, I am convinced that 'normal' will be a new normal for years to come. I think face masks, social distancing etc are here to stay in various forms. A vaccine will take the edge off hopefully. But what used to be normal e.g. large crowds in enclosed spaces without any protection won't be normal going forward, I think.

It is true. We were sold not overwhelming the NHS back in March to trying to prevent ALL Covid deaths today.
I think it's a case of which country will break first. Noone dares be the first to admit we can't beat this.