Why on earth do you think home ed would work second time around?

[Whatchasayin]

We know that a huge percentage of DC didn't even log onto home learning earlier in the year. We know thousands of DC don't have devices, WiFi, space to work, parental support. We know thousands of DC can't be bothered to do it and who's going to make them when parents are at work/don't care. This all happened a few months ago so why are so many people advocating going back there? For a virus that many people don't even realise they have and most don't get more than mildly unwell. Average age of death is 82.

I think @OrpheliasCrayon sums it up perfectly.
And re the NHS being overrun, is that not what the nightingale hospitals were built for (and never used last time)?

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I suspect all those wanting schools open and their children not at home would still want access to the NHS.

It isn't and either/or situation. No all schools are seeing high numbers of cases. We live in a tier 3 area yet there hasn't been a single confirmed child case at my son's school and there has been one staff case and they have no contact with children. Why should that school close?

and you would think the majority of parents would ensure the remote learning was complied with for the sake of their children

How do I make them comply when I'm not in the house, but out at work?

It might have stood a better chance if the government had provided students with the laptops they promised last year before the end of July. And they'd not arbitrarily decided to slash the numbers they'd already allocated this term.

It wont work but some people are not bothered if it doenst work because they and their children simply won't be affected. That's all any of this boils down to - self interest.

I'm not advocating going back to home ed, but my DD's primary has got its act together now. During lockdown, they were a shambles but now, school has established exactly which children have internet and iPad/smartphone/laptop access; all the teachers have been trained to use MS Teams; they have a plan (hallelujah!) for work to be assigned daily AND collected at the end of each day for marking/feedback; teachers will actually be available online to help in the mornings if kids get stuck; and there will be regular class meetings on MS Teams.

Literally all we have before was a few dozen websites to mess around on, and Oak National.

So, it is a massive step forwards. I'm not at all worried now, before I was desperate as we were getting nowhere and I was making up a curriculum for my DD.

The people advocating probably have about 5 laptops in their detached house and think everyone else is the same

It might work better if the government had put lots of funding into ensuring good tech access for every student. However, we still have really poor broadband access across much of the country. DH and I are both teachers and we have two primary aged DC. We pay for superfast broadband but our WiFi can still only cope with one person in an online meeting at a time, so having four of us expected to do live lessons at the same time would be impossible, although we are in the fortunate position of having enough devices.

Also, although they are belatedly introducing a scheme to provide devices to pupils who don't have access, from what I've read (I am involved in computing at primary school and am in various FB groups with those responsible for remote learning provision) some schools are being provided with sub-standard devices that have very limited functionality.

It's really very difficult to see a solution. We have poor school infrastructure (many small, cramped classrooms), large class sizes compared to many other countries, overall low levels of education funding and low technology funding. All of these make it very difficult to ensure effective, safe education in a pandemic. I'm a primary teacher and I can't see that we have any other option than to keep going as we are but with vulnerable staff and pupils not being forced to attend. Secondary, however, I think there are more options for blended learning, although there is still the issue of ensuring access.

@NRJ688

The people advocating probably have about 5 laptops in their detached house and think everyone else is the same

Ha, absolutely. Probably get the nanny to do all the teaching

Well, I don't think anyone is advocating going back to 'home ed' ie closing schools because they think it's a better way for children to learn and teachers to teach, are they?

Home ed would have more chance of 'working' if the govt hadn't reneged on its promise to provide tech to schools in disadvantaged areas for example.

Schools would be safer and more productive if the govt had got effective testing and track and trace in place when it had time over the summer and implemented mitigation measures in line with other European countries for example.

I am of the view that children need to be in school. I'm also of the view that teaching staff should have the same rights to a safe working environment as other workers, and that public health policy and implementation should be run by people who know something about it.

You can't have just the first of those factors and expect anything to 'work' really, can you?

@toxtethOgradyUSA

It wont work but some people are not bothered if it doenst work because they and their children simply won't be affected. That's all any of this boils down to - self interest.

I’d imagine it was the opposite.

Rather than wanting them in school as easier for the parents to not have to educate or look after them, many want school staff, medically vulnerable families and the NHS protected and are prepared to play their part.

Exactly. Education can be caught up on and you would think the majority of parents would ensure the remote learning was complied with for the sake of their children.

I am disabled and also a carer for both of my disabled children. They both need a huge amount of input when learning, pretty much one to one at most times. I also need time to rest. School is my only respite.
Which of my children should I prioritise? Or myself and my health? When I have to sleep, what happens to the supervision my children need?

I understand the childcare issues would make shutting secondary schools preferable but the consequence to a huge proportion of teenagers is unthinkable. They are at an age where they could go either way and I'm sure thousands would choose the wrong path without the structure and accountability of school especially as they're probably already behind after the last few months. What steps would be taken to prevent this?

Schools must stay open. To do otherwise would reduce the life chances and life expectancy of our most disadvantaged DC.

Even Nicola Sturgeon who I do not like has been very clear that schools will remain open unless hospitals become totally overwhelmed.

I do agree that extending the lives of people in care homes by a few months should not be prioritised over DC’s education. The issue in care homes could be solved anyway by more and quicker testing.

@lazylinguist

At least keep years 10,11,12 and 13 in school. With exams coming up next Summer, you cannot send them all home - many would fall massively behind and social inequality would increase for the next generation.

Yes but they are the year groups who can be at home without their parents needing to be off work to supervise them. I'm not defending it educationally - I'm a teacher with a Year 11 dd. But it's just not practical for working parents.

That's the logic behind what's just been announced here (Italy) (15-18 year olds to move to 75% minimum online, all others in school (for now))

HE was a nightmare for us last time, me trying to work full time and support 2 DC as a LP. I was absolutely exhausted and on my last legs by the time they went back. Mental health sketchy but mainly utterly burned out.

DC1’s secondary school does finally seem to have a plan to do teams and live lessons if it happens again but not heard anything from DC2’s primary school so who knows they might just send a sheet of links a week again that I’ll need to use to plan and deliver to him with no training, on top of a v demanding full time job and running a house.

I also struggle with broadband and can’t see it coping with me in meetings while 1 or both DC are simultaneously on MS teams or whatever.

I’m v v worried how I’ll cope if schools shut again but I expect someone will be along shortly to tell me if I struggle it’s because I just can’t be bothered to teach my own kids.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

The NHS ‘being protected’ last time led to 25,000 excess deaths from conditions like heart disease due to people being denied treatment or too scared to access it because of the media and NHS scaremongering.

Well if we carry on like we are then schools will close, without a doubt. And they will close suddenly, in a emergency situation when our healthcare can’t cope.

People who were banging on for months about how schools ‘cannot close and must go back as normal’ will have caused it.

If people had put as much effort into lobbying the government for a safer more sustainable school opening then we would all be in a better position.

My secondary school was pretty much shut just before half term. Instead of teaching 140 students on my last day, I taught 7. One of them was removed half way through the lesson and sent home to isolate.

Because I was in teaching 7 students, I couldn't do very much for the students who were at home. This is the worst of all possible worlds.

I don't want schools to close, I want schools to stay open. But me wanting that doesn't make it happen. Given that my school is more than half shut anyway, with all my exam years down, what do the people who want schools open want to happen for schools like mine? This "keep all schools open at all costs" is not working for a lot of students and its only going to get worse.

I am in tier 1, if it matters, though with rates higher than several tier 2 places.

It would massively disadvantage kids without support or space at home.

I have a problem with the inequality.

I had a "good" experience in that I could just about manage to juggle work & home school. I spent hours with dc & made them do stuff daily, the school was brilliant & tech no issue. I know this wasn't the same for all. My kids definitely missed the socialisation element too.

I'm actually quite dreading my DSS's sixth form closing again. DP works full time (plus more!) as a keyworker, with little choice in the matter at the moment, which means I'm here the majority of the day and have to deal with the fact that 17yo DSS won't get out of bed unless he's told to, won't do any work unless he's told to, and sneaks on one game or another the second I turn my back.

I want him to do well, and he apparently wants to do well too despite not putting any work in to make us think that's true.

He actually works quite well when he's physically in college, just doesn't work when he's at home. More home working and he won't be going to university as he won't pass - and I absolutely refuse to go through what we went through earlier this year again. He knows he has to get up and can set his alarm. If he doesn't, it's not my issue.

Urgh. Here we go again..

"Schools must stay open"

Sorry but fuck that. I can't get to see my GP face to face but I've got to potentially sacrifice myself for other people's kids. Nah. Not worth it. This is not the job I signed up for.

With the imperative 'must stay open' narrative you are going to see lots of staff off sick, isolating etc Lack of staff is already causing school closures.

[quote Ecosse]@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

The NHS ‘being protected’ last time led to 25,000 excess deaths from conditions like heart disease due to people being denied treatment or too scared to access it because of the media and NHS scaremongering.[/quote]
Not you again

How many times do people and doctors on here have to explain to you....

If Covid is running rife through our hospitals then it isn’t safe for people to get treatment for things like heart attacks and cancer....as the likelihood is is that they will catch Covid in hospital.

Not sure if you’re actually stupid at this point or just being deliberately obtuse.