Why on earth do you think home ed would work second time around?

[Whatchasayin]

We know that a huge percentage of DC didn't even log onto home learning earlier in the year. We know thousands of DC don't have devices, WiFi, space to work, parental support. We know thousands of DC can't be bothered to do it and who's going to make them when parents are at work/don't care. This all happened a few months ago so why are so many people advocating going back there? For a virus that many people don't even realise they have and most don't get more than mildly unwell. Average age of death is 82.

We can't do it again. I had to try to keep my business going whilst also ensuring teen actually did the work set. I can't do that again indefinitely. Schools need to stay open. I'm sorry but the young must come before the over 80s. It's a sad fact but true.

What are these students going to do when they reach uni or work and they have to plan their own study or work load? We are setting them up for an enormous fall

Really? Did you have an “enormous fall” transitioning from school to Uni and then work? I didn’t. Why would our kids?

@MadameBlobby

It sounds like the head is trying to reflect parent attitudes. None of us find this ideal. But the reality of this half term is that it is unsustainable. Heads have looked up and seen rapidly deteriorating behaviour, staff on the brink of break downs and steadily higher numbers of pupils self isolating and seen that the writing is on the wall.

We can resist or try to make the best of it.

For what it’s worth, kids are highly adaptable. If we tell them that they can manage then they generally do. What concerns me is people who are adamant that their GCSE child is incapable of managing their own workload. Not the best message for that poor kid about their own capabilities.

@MadameBlobby

Yes, I did actually. I failed my first year and had to re-sit because I had little idea of how to manage such an enormous workload. It’s a skill. The sooner they learn it the better.

Surely better to learn that in Yr10 mocks than in the first year of uni.

We've been told that should the year group get set home that teachers will be available for only the first 15 minutes of each set work on Teams. Why? Why can't they be there the whole time on teams. What if a child got to a certain part and didn't understand but it was after the 15 minutes. Home learning via school online platform means teachers should be sat by their laptop the whole time. After all if the children were in school then they would be in the classroom for the whole lesson.....

Last time curriculum was suspended and there was no warning for schools. This time around schools are very prepared. My children's school has had them at home for 2 days last week practicing 2 full days of remote lessons then got feedback from parents and children. It worked very well. Not sure how I am supposed to go to work though 🤔

@NeverForgetYourDreams

We can't do it again. I had to try to keep my business going whilst also ensuring teen actually did the work set. I can't do that again indefinitely. Schools need to stay open. I'm sorry but the young must come before the over 80s. It's a sad fact but true.

Then the government need to pump funding in to keep them open. Parents need to be going crazy on social media about this, demanding more resources to keep them open.

Just because at nine or even 13 you cannot study in the same way as a 20 year old can it doesn’t set anyone up to fail. Actually expecting primary school children in particular to have the independent study skills of a young adult sets them up to fail.

God I started life not even being able to go to the toilet or feed myself and look at me now..an independent with a children and a mortgage! Human’s develop in time making a twenty year old very different to a child just starting secondary school. The assumption we can apply the teaching techniques to younger children as we do to adults and expect the same results is nonsensical. And let’s face it before the pandemic no one really thought 12 year olds could teach themselves huge amounts of the curriculum independently yet suddenly it’s ok to forget they are children? It doesn’t work! And teachers may like to blame the kids when it fails but it doesn’t matter really whose fault it is it’s just going to fail!

Schools need to stay open. I'm sorry but the young must come before the over 80s.

I agree. We really need to decide as a society what our priorities are. Personally I feel it should be the young generation. My elderly parents would agree btw.

What are these students going to do when they reach uni or work and they have to plan their own study or work load? We are setting them up for an enormous fall

It's actually an issue in universities. Students turn up expecting it to be just like school and we have to spend a lot of time working on academic skills

[quote BelleSausage]@Deliaskis

How about this one- making a requirement for blended learning provision that is fully accessible to all students would go a long way to evening the playing field for students nationwide.

What should be happening is that schools in tier 3 areas being targeted with funding to run pilots with blended learning and for the expectations to be built that GCSE and Sixth Form students start to learn to work more independently (aside from additional needs which must be allowed provision in school).

What are these students going to do when they reach uni or work and they have to plan their own study or work load? We are setting them up for an enormous fall.

I actually see blended learning part of the way we can assist students to be more empowered in directing their own learning.[/quote]
I think a series of robust pilots would be a great idea, with progress and attainment measured against those attending full time (including periods of isolation where necessary). If we can demonstrate it really does work, I have no problem with it. It's just what we saw last time didn't work. The countries that are doing well online don't seem to have the same issues with live and video online teaching that we do.

Moving older students to more independent learning is a different proposition, and if this is a good idea, and sound educational theory and practice outside of pandemic, then it should be explored. I would never dismiss though, the huge value I got from the contact time I had with my A'level tutors. Their guidance set me up very well for university, and I wouldn't have said I could have done as well with half the contact time. I have huge respect for teachers who prepare students for the next step the way mine did.

@SueEllenMishke yes one of my best friends is a uni lecturer, she says the same. The decades of perpetual spoon feeding in secondary schools to get kids at whatever cost to reach a grade takes its toll on independence and resilience.

I often tell my students that I don't have a spoon :)

[quote BelleSausage]@MadameBlobby

Yes, I did actually. I failed my first year and had to re-sit because I had little idea of how to manage such an enormous workload. It’s a skill. The sooner they learn it the better.

Surely better to learn that in Yr10 mocks than in the first year of uni.[/quote]
But I didn’t and neither did any of my friends despite doing traditionally a very difficult degree and going into a tough profession, the only people I knew who struggled were private school kids who had been spoon fed everything. I don’t agree that being in school full time means that kids don’t learn to study or work properly. They are kids! These skills take time to learn and it’s a gradual process as they grow up. We don’t expect a 14 year old to be able to organise themselves the way a 20 year old does. They are getting there and will learn but they are still children!

I would have been and would be fine with part time school. My eldest son actually said he would have preferred it as due to the way the school days were being split he’d have been in the same days as all his best friends but not the arsehole kids he can’t stand. my objection is that it’s just older secondary kids who are expected to put up with it. They are not stupid and it sends the message to them that their schooling is not important which I don’t think is good.

@MadameBlobby can I just say as a 1980s private school girl I had ZERO spoonfeeding. It practically was teach yourself from the textbook. Compare that to the endless scaffolding (spoonfeeding) from about 2000 onwards!

“Or at least it is not good enough for just those kids to have substandard education. If there’s a move to part time everyone should suffer equally. The education of senior high school kids is not less important than younger kids’“

“my objection is that it’s just older secondary kids who are expected to put up with it. They are not stupid and it sends the message to them that their schooling is not important which I don’t think is good.“

How unpleasant. So to give a better message to far more contagious “children” in bubbles of many hundreds, who are developed enough to not need childcare, are able to learn far more of their curriculum from home and who could actually benefit from more independent learning you want to, for example, shut/rota a small preschool of 25 3-4 year olds, who spend half the day outside anyway, are all far too young to engage with online teaching and who need peers to learn half the kind of skills they are meant to be learning? Or a year 1 primary bubble with 30 children and 2 adults, most of whom cannot engage with online learning for more than a fraction of their day or curriculum and need constant supervision? Why? Of course all children’s schooling is important but I’d have thought it was obvious that different solutions will be needed for different education stages and different stages of child maturity.

@NeverForgetYourDreams last term I was left with 3 classes of around six pupils whilst the rest of the class were at home. All I was able to do was post power points and worksheets on to teams. I was unable to teach all pupils at the same time as our school technology/ hardware is not up to it. We also had to complete parents' evening at home as we were unable to use teams for that in school. I had to buy a laptop myself to work from home in March as the chromebook I had didn't have a camera/mic. So there are a variety of reasons as to why teachers can't be present on line. I have the teams app on my phone which has pinged all hours of the day with questions from pupils , I couldn't keep up. Schools are so under funded.

I disagree about the spoon feeding. Neither of my DC (year 9 and 11) are spoon fed and perfectly capable of independent learning. Home learning is not sustainable for them because of that it is because the lack of interaction with peers long term is massively detrimental to them. They both became pretty withdrawn and very demotivated. Stopped doing the sport they love even though they still could. Hours on your own at that age is no good. I just can't bear to see them like that again.

Also as someone who walks to work and has to move every lesson I am not taking my own laptop in to school with me . If we go into lockdown again I will revert to sharing it with my daughter who also is sent work via teams. When people discuss parents sharing computers with children/ having to do their own work and supervise their child people seem to forget this is often what teachers are also having to do !

@flumposie When people discuss parents sharing computers with children/ having to do their own work and supervise their child people seem to forget this is often what teachers are also having to do
I totally understand but isn't this another massive reason why home education just won't work. How are teachers supposed to teach our DC when they've got to teach and look after their own?

@Whatchasayin you can disagree about your own children although after having taught in 10 or so different schools since the 90s it's (spoonfeeding) pretty much endemic.

@Whatchasayin totally. I'm desperate for my school to stay open. The thought of reverting back to online teaching from home fills me with dread. My pupils hardly engaged with work set, I found the lack of boundaries between work and home totally invasive by July. My own mental health as a single parent teacher was horrendous towards the end. I'm so happy to be back in classrooms with pupils.

@Whatchasayin we are all happy to be back in school as teachers, it's what our job is. What we aren't happy with is the fact that we've all been sent back 'business as usual', apart from a few window dressing features of staggered starts, hand gel, bubbles which either break (bubbles and staggered timings) when they meet at the bus stop or have siblings in different years or run out (hand gel), and outbreaks are occurring all over the place and for some schools have led to many staff off and the schools having to close. As the tier system will ultimately fail (all the scientists think this as far as I've seen) there needs to be a plan/provision for schools yet #dontmentiontheschools is the watchword for all politicians and media. For everyone's sake schools need to be considered.

It was shit before and it’ll be shit again if we have to go for it. It’s no substitute to being in school and I would rather get Covid from work than have schools shut. It’s not like I’m really seeing anyone outside my class bubble at work anyway. And I’m certainly not socialising. Barely getting near other people, I don’t have time to go shopping.
That is me being selfish, however - if home learning has to happen then it has to happen but I do worry so much about the impact on vulnerable children. I amlucky to think this way as I’m young and no health conditions and already at a high enough risk of getting it to not be seeing my family.

I do think the “measures” in schools are a joke and have already lead to more disrupted education for children than just taking the time to actually make a plan would have done.