Do we need a reality check about covid?

[TheSilence]

I’m so quiet about this in real life, and bite my tongue but I’m so sick of hearing certain things and it’s making me despair of the human race.

I am no scientist, nor do I especially understand research/data or statistics.

But in a nutshell, I am sick of people minimising this virus. I’ve seen and heard it for 7 months now and am most frustrated by these kinds of comments:

“It’s just flu but they’ve renamed it”
“Flu has a higher death rate”
“For 99% of people it’s just like having the common cold”
“All nurses ever do is film tik Tok videos”
“Long covid doesn’t exist”
“Masks cause severe neurological damage”!

This is just a few because I don’t want to rant too much, I haven’t even covered the vast amount of conspiracy theories I’ve read.

From my understanding, all of those statements I’ve said are wrong, but I’m aware that my understanding is wrong.
I know some people might be reading this thinking I’ve got it back to front and that people are over estimating this virus, but that hasn’t been my experience at all.

Bottom line is, the single most important thing about covid that makes it a severe threat is that it’s brand new. The people who understand these things barely understand this. When going into a battle or war, knowing and understanding your enemy gives you a huge advantage. It’s the same with this, and tbh I can’t get my head around the statements people make with such certainty, such as “I KNOW for a fact if I or my family get it we’ll definitely be fine” or “Long covid is DEFINITELY the same as any post viral syndrome”. How can these people be so ridiculously sure when scientists aren’t?

I hate the arrogance and huge egos of people in this country and other western countries.

And yes I’m struggling with severe mental health issues that I can’t get proper help for because of covid. As I know I sound very ranty and possibly angry.

I’m just saying - please take this seriously.

@LemonTT

It has really shown up those people who form an opinion and then go looking for facts to back it up. Unfortunately they are well fed with lies and distortions made by egotists and grandstanders on main stream and social media. The use of glib catch phrases like “the cure could be worse than the disease” is entirely meaningless. We don’t have much by way of cures and the disease is everywhere. Prevention was always the better solution.

The virus has humbled us because we can’t buy or blag our way out of it. All the simple popular options fall flat on their faces. We are left with the need to deal with complexity as confusing as that is. We need to accept compromise as galling as that is for business, the left and the right.

This is an amazing post, to me. I can’t agree enough. It’s ripped us out of our comfort zone and forced life to change, and forced us to succumb to nature.

I was going to say that no one can deny nature, no matter what else you deny, but actually I do think that some people will deny even that. I read on a forum a while ago someone said that no pandemics have ever existed, they were all created by governments at that time to instil fear.

To answer your question OP - yes, we do need a reality check about Covid. We need to accept it as part of life, and get on with things. The vulnerable should take precautions as they see fit, as they always have done around infectious diseases. The “worried well” can stay indoors if they want to. The rest of us need to be able to carry on living, working, shopping, socialising, learning, spending time with loved ones - everything that makes us a functional society.

@Angelinasbicycle

I agree with OpheliasCrayon. All the teachers I deal with are super happy to be teaching and much prefer to be at school with their colleagues and with the children rather than sitting at home staring at a computer screen.

I am getting tired of these threads -whinge fest--. There are. number of very vocal posters who may or may not be working at school and who screech ad nauseum how unsafe schools are and that they must shut immediately and indefinitely so that kids are locked away at home. It's laughable, really. Some people here don't seem to value education, which is a mindset I find so alien. Families around us are very supportive of teachers and schools, we donate cleaning products, comply with social distancing at pick up and drop off, adhere to one way systems and teach our children to be grateful for their education, respect their teachers and do their best. This generation of youngsters is very resilient and I am proud of them. I hope the school will never ever shut again during term time.

Haven't seen any teachers on MN calling for schools to be closed immediately and indefinitely?

@wanderings

People might take it more seriously if the government and the media were not CONSTANTLY exaggerating some catastrophe or other. Over the years, the media and/or the government told us there would be Armageddon from:

• The millennium bug.
• Our mobile phones killing us.
• Weapons of mass destruction, necessitating war.
• Paedophiles around every corner.
• Immigrants around every corner.
• Terrorists around every corner.

People are weary of the constant tide of scaremongering, and made to be fearful and angry over their morning cornflakes. For many people, Covid was "just more press hysteria" at first. After this diet, we just don't know what is true and what isn't. If Covid is as dangerous as it is made out to be, too bad that the government and the media have wasted the little credibility they once had by crying wolf about so many things.

Some people probably don't take climate change seriously for the same reason. I remember Tony Blair trying to make us use our cars less (while he was chauffeur-driven everywhere), to give him a reason to price motorists off the road. People remember these ways the media and the government manipulate them, and they resist in the only way they can: by not taking them seriously. So, some people are resisting this "crisis" by not taking it seriously.

Yes this is extremely valid actually, the ‘crying wolf’ effect built up over the years.

I guess just at people who are ignoring the rules or who keep repeating that it’s a cold/flu.

I follow the rules and I know Covid is different to a cold/flu.

And I still feel that we are overreacting to a virus that for the vast majority is harmless.

We need to consider the negative effects of these lockdowns - imo that is too often ignored in these discussions.

@TrustTheGeneGenie, I see, sorry maybe I misread it. I am however very aware of the MH crisis we already have and the fact that appropriate treatment is already not available, so it will get worse. Covid is worsening it, but it was already terrible. I needed psychodynamic therapy relating to trauma and an eating disorder, it wasn’t available so I had to give myself therapy. I’ve also worked with lots of people with varied MH issues and access to services (and longevity of that access) is very poor. Doctors rely far too much on meds and not enough on making sure therapies are available. It’s such a complex problem, but I would never ever whine about someone killing themselves. I see MH as a health reason, so that’s an exception to the rule. I’ve lost loved ones to mental illness, live with a DH with mental health issues, nearly lost my own life to MH (Anorexia) and worked with those with varied diagnoses, so I don’t underestimate it at all. I do think that lots of people dying or NHS services being severely affected would also affect MH. For example, someone losing a young family member due to hospital care being unavailable down to high covid hospitalisation or the only perinatal midwife on a team being off due to illness, so incorrect decisions being made. I think that’s a big problem with husbands not attending antenatal care, bar the big issues with pregnancy part, the lack of advocacy. Anyhow, I just want to reassure you I’d never take MH issues lightly or underestimate how deadly they can be - or equally how they can just suck every positive thing from your life.

@PimlicoJo

I have a friend who has Long Covid. She's a shadow of her former self and very unwell. It's heartbreaking to see. I'm taking this seriously, but I've noticed that friends and family who rigorously followed rules in the early days aren't bothering now. The attitude, although not openly said, seems to be that you can't catch it from family and friends, only strangers. It's madness.

I’m so sorry to read this and I hope your friend starts to make some recovery soon

I think theres a middle ground to everything. I got covid and it hammered me but before I got it I was like a lunatic obsessing over it. The people saying theres a small chance of getting it irritate me, as I was one of those small chance people, but in the same way we cant lock ourselves away from the world. For me i think if everyone limited contacts, but properly, like dont go into a hundred shops looking for things, ring ahead. Decide among family and friends who's in your bubble. Properly social distance, wear a mask, wash hands. But shutting everything down, no. I'd fully agree with schools if they could find a way to cut classes but whereas before I was fully against them, I'm now definitely for staying open (when numbers aren't insane).

[quote MagpieSong]@TrustTheGeneGenie, I see, sorry maybe I misread it. I am however very aware of the MH crisis we already have and the fact that appropriate treatment is already not available, so it will get worse. Covid is worsening it, but it was already terrible. I needed psychodynamic therapy relating to trauma and an eating disorder, it wasn’t available so I had to give myself therapy. I’ve also worked with lots of people with varied MH issues and access to services (and longevity of that access) is very poor. Doctors rely far too much on meds and not enough on making sure therapies are available. It’s such a complex problem, but I would never ever whine about someone killing themselves. I see MH as a health reason, so that’s an exception to the rule. I’ve lost loved ones to mental illness, live with a DH with mental health issues, nearly lost my own life to MH (Anorexia) and worked with those with varied diagnoses, so I don’t underestimate it at all. I do think that lots of people dying or NHS services being severely affected would also affect MH. For example, someone losing a young family member due to hospital care being unavailable down to high covid hospitalisation or the only perinatal midwife on a team being off due to illness, so incorrect decisions being made. I think that’s a big problem with husbands not attending antenatal care, bar the big issues with pregnancy part, the lack of advocacy. Anyhow, I just want to reassure you I’d never take MH issues lightly or underestimate how deadly they can be - or equally how they can just suck every positive thing from your life.[/quote]
I wasn't saying you felt like that, you obviously don't but many others on this thread don't agree at all, unfortunately.

@Jrobhatch29

Totally disagree OP. I think the world has collectively lost its mind. I also think those who give the advice (scientists) are so invested in their beliefs and research that they are holding their ground and attempting to save face when it has become very clear that Covid’s average victim is 82. The average life expectancy in this country is 81. A year of our lives has been wasted due to a virus that the vast majority won’t get and, if they do, they’ll not only survive but barely notice.

This.

I kind of agree with this too. I think the world has lost its mind. I think we are being told things that are not really true. Yes there is a virus, yes it can be deadly but we are not being told the full truth of what’s happening in hospitals, how many are actually dying from covid and how many have actually died from other conditions but they happened to contract covid whilst on their death bed? How many people have had no symptoms what so ever related to covid but tested positive whilst staying in hospital?

How many will die of non covid related illnesses due to covid, due to not being able to see a specialist or receive treatment?

How many people will take their lives due to lockdown and being unable to use mental health services?

How many will take their lives because they have lost their jobs due to covid lockdowns?

This country (and most of the world) is now in a huge mess and it will take years to recover, many will die due to covid but very few will die of covid.

I stick to the rules, I wear a mask, I don’t mix with other households but what for?

The attitude, although not openly said, seems to be that you can't catch it from family and friends, only strangers.

Does anyone really believe this

I’ve been worried about this virus all along. Before schools shut in March.

Now I think we need a reality check the other way.

If what we were doing was helpful. If the government was semi in control I might feel differently. But our lives are being snatched away and stamped on - for what?

I don’t want to get this virus, but know I will. It’s inevitable now for everyone. That’s the reality - for me at the moment - I think most people will realise this soon.

So what are we hiding from?

I was assuming your message was going the other way. I.e. the virus is here to stay and we have to get on with it.

So no I don’t agree at all. I’m completely the other side. I guess that is the issue. I’m horrified by what is happening.

When did we all become so fearful?

@littlestpogo

I think the problem is that for many people on an individual level it’s a mild illness and unlikely to be serious. However on a societal level it is very serious - because of the lack of immunity the sheer numbers mean left unchecked it would crash our health system. That’s means no access to health care for anything - not just Covid. A crashed health system would in turn also wreak horrendous economic damage. There is also the issue that the UK’s health system has been under resourced for a long time so has far less capacity than say other European nations.

However the restrictions necessary to control it are equally awful and will in turn cause great harm ( in fact are).

I guess that’s the reality of a pandemic of a novel virus ( with the added issue that - IMHO - the U.K. government has not handled it well ( albeit some of this is as a result of the structure of the U.K.)

Do you think that might actually be one of the underlying issues with managing infectious diseases? The fact that they may not affect an individual but as a society they can do so much harm? And the problem is that in a lot of western countries it’s about the individual much more than the whole. I wonder if that mindset is what’s causing so many cases here and in the US for example.

I read an interesting post from a historian, they said that in times gone by this illness may hardly have registered, as then people did not live so long, nor did they have lifestyle related diseases such as obesity and diabetes.

OP - do you think if we all followed The Rules, everything would be okay?

The issue isn't that it's new. The issue is that for most people it is less than a cold (they don't even know they have it), for a small minority its worse than flu (ie higher fatality rate for over 70s). We can't see it and don't know who has it, and most of the population have no reason to fear, and hence no reason to comply with massive restrictions on their life. That's literally the problem.

@Mintychoc1

To answer your question OP - yes, we do need a reality check about Covid. We need to accept it as part of life, and get on with things. The vulnerable should take precautions as they see fit, as they always have done around infectious diseases. The “worried well” can stay indoors if they want to. The rest of us need to be able to carry on living, working, shopping, socialising, learning, spending time with loved ones - everything that makes us a functional society.

This.

@Orangeblossom7777

I can see some elements of thinking styles such as black and white thinking and catastrophising in the OP and wonder if possibly something like CBT might be helpful

I absolutely do have those thinking styles and have battled with them for a long time. I’m on a waiting list for CBT, I’ve had it in the past and it hasn’t actually helped, the only thing that helps me is my medication and private therapy which I can no longer afford.

@TheNewLook

Totally disagree OP. I think the world has collectively lost its mind. I also think those who give the advice (scientists) are so invested in their beliefs and research that they are holding their ground and attempting to save face when it has become very clear that Covid’s average victim is 82. The average life expectancy in this country is 81. A year of our lives has been wasted due to a virus that the vast majority won’t get and, if they do, they’ll not only survive but barely notice.

So if you were in charge of the country, what would you do?

I honestly believe one of the reasons we have such high positive tests and deaths is because we are such an unhealthy country.

Our obesity rates are shocking. Most people are overweight and in an inflamed state. Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure and tummy fat. It’s a perfect storm.

We are also too woke to fell people, nicely, that they need to lose that weight as soon as they can before winter.

I remain baffled by people terrified of covid but happy to walk around with any number of lifestyle diseases which present a far higher risk to them overall

It's a perfect storm
I agree, I think high levels of underlying health conditions are a significant factor here

Our obesity rates are shocking. Most people are overweight and in an inflamed state. Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure and tummy fat. It’s a perfect storm.

I agree.

@Angelinasbicycle

Scaremongering OP, it really is tiresome. maybe try yoga, or meditation or a daily walk it might help with your sense of fabricated gloom and doom.

Funny enough I have several 'doctor friends' and none of them are particularity concerned about Covid. They were in March but are no longer. They take many of the prevention methods such as social distancing, hand washing socialising with a big pinch of salt many don't comply!. I suppose doctors tend to have a more casual attitude to illness but all the same, they just don't seem so worried about Covid. They are, however, very worried about other illnesses, especially noncommunicable diseases and most are extremely concerned about global warming.

OP, did you know that this is the hottest year on record? Now, that IS something to fret about! We need our kids in school getting the best possible education as they will soon be the next generation of scientists, politicians, journalists, doctors to hopefully solve the problems previous generations have created.

Thank you for the advice, I do go on a daily walk and am trying to meditate but I have a back injury and find yoga pretty difficult to get into the positions! Maybe I’ll give it another go 👍

Sorry if I came across as scaremongering, that absolutely was not my intention. However, I do think some people aren’t taking this seriously enough and I stand by that.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I know it's serious. I know I could catch it, I know it might make me ill, I know I might die. I also know that there are thousands of other risks in my life which could do exactly the same thing. I also know that life is short and spending it locked up is depressing. I know that losing my job, or my home is a bigger risk to me personally than covid. Same goes for my other half. Same goes for my child. I appreciate it's not the same for everyone, but then everyone else doesn't put me first, and everyone else won't pay my mortgage for me.

I felt quite "in it together" and charitable at the start of this and funnily enough I don't anymore. I still know it's serious, but so is depression, so is everything else left untreated, so is loneliness and isolation.

I don't like the whole "covid is the only thing that matters" attitude.

Exactly this! Couldn't have put it any better