Urgent - can two households still mix in restaurants?

[buttery81]

I just read that London is going into tier two lockdown from midnight tomorrow, which means no households mixing indoors.

My question is, can two households still mix in a restaurant or pub? Just asking because my brother and SIL were due to come to my house for lunch on Saturday with my nephew, which is no longer allowed. Could we book a restaurant instead?

It's a bit silly if we can as presumably it puts us all at more risk, but if it's a way around the rules then we will do it!

The proprietors will be enforcing it, as I doubt many of them will have a handy £10k to pay a first offence.

Just like if you look like you are u25 you might be ID'ed so they don't risk the fine for serving someone under 18, if you look as if you're more than one household, you'll have to supply proof.

It's the way to sink a local business, to expect them to risk a fine of that scale.

[quote MessAllOver]@DeliciouslyFemale. I agree with you. We're all selectively 'interpreting' the rules to suit what we want to do and then blaming others when they do the same.[/quote]
Selective rule interpretation is definitely a thing. I see friends kicking off with others for 'rulebreaks', whilst breaking a few themselves. Though of course, the ones kicking off have 'good reason' to break the rules, not like those other people who break the rules

@QueenofmyPrinces

Speak for yourself! Many people are following guidance.

As were my friends. I'm not sure they were if they interacted i.e. spoke with the neighbouring table, but I also am not sure how much I care to continue arguing

There are rules saying we can’t talk to people at the next table?

This is like arguing with a teen

If you are sitting at the next door table, to talk to them, then you're not in line with the idea of not meeting other households.

If the rule is you're not supposed to meet, I think that means you're not supposed to meet.

So, if they were eating in a restaurant and realised their friend was sitting at the next table, they’re not permitted to have a conversation? Away on!

@DeliciouslyFemale

So, if they were eating in a restaurant and realised their friend was sitting at the next table, they’re not permitted to have a conversation? Away on!

These people booked tables specifically, it wasn't chance.

Oh dear lord! 🤣

These people booked tables specifically, it wasn't chance

So they’re not spreading the virus, but the people that followed the rules and planned to meet up, but sit two metres apart, ARE spreading the virus? Does the virus magically stay in a wee bubble with the friends that happen to ‘bump’ into each other, then?

So, if they were eating in a restaurant and realised their friend was sitting at the next table, they’re not permitted to have a conversation? Away on!

The exact wording is this: "People must not meet with anybody outside their household or support bubble in any indoor setting, whether at home or in a public place."

So it does come down to whether you think talking to friends at the next table (whether premeditated or opportunistic) constitutes "meeting with" them.

I think an awkward nod is passing to acknowledge their presence is probably ok.

in passing

You can meet in the beer garden outside on tables at the pub. You can also go for a long walk together outside.

I don't support any of the mandatory CV19 rules and have not since March but still follow them.

I don't think the legislaton for this has been drafted for London yet and guidance is not the law so may be wait until it is issued. I will check on the legislation website now.

It might be out actually - these are the regulations for High category (so London).

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Local COVID-19 Alert Level) (High) (England) Regulations 2020
You are here:

UK Statutory Instruments2020 No. 1104 

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1104/contents/made
I will have a look now

This is very police state - any action necessary (any!!) and they can take the action where they think someone is breaking rules, not where someone is.

4.—(1) A relevant person may take such action as is necessary to enforce any Tier 2 restriction.(2) A relevant person may give a prohibition notice to a person if the relevant person reasonablybelieves that—(a)the person is contravening a Tier 2 restriction imposed by Part 2 or 3 of Schedule 1, and(b)it is necessary and proportionate to give the prohibition notice for the purpose of preventingthat person from continuing to contravene the restriction.(3) Where a relevant person considers that a number of people are gathered together incontravention of the Tier 2 restriction imposed by paragraph 1 or 2 of Schedule 1, the relevant personmay—(a)direct the gathering to disperse,(b)direct any person in the gathering to return to the place where they are living, or(c)remove any person from the gathering.(4) A relevant person exercising the power in paragraph (3)(c) to remove a person from agathering may use reasonable force, if necessary, in exercise of the power.

Despite myself thinking the rules are absolutely stupid because economically, lockdown is way worse and the cost of coronavirus per patient is already above the NHS threshold...

My ID puts me at a different address to DP. I tried getting it changed but we moved house and I need a new passport pic so I was waiting to do drivers license and PP at same time. What will they say?

Document Generated: 2020-10-13Status: This is the original version (as it was originally made). Thisitem of legislation is currently only available in its original format.SCHEDULE 1Regulation 3Tier 2 restrictionsPART 1Restrictions on gatheringsParticipation in gatherings indoors1.—(1) No person may participate in a gathering in the Tier 2 area which—(a)consists of two or more people, and(b)takes place indoors.(2) No person living in the Tier 2 area may participate in a gathering outside that area which—(a)consists of two or more people, and(b)takes place indoors.(3) Sub-paragraphs (1) and (2) do not apply if any of the exceptions set out in paragraph 4 apply.Participation in gatherings outdoors2.—(1) No person may participate in a gathering in the Tier 2 area which—(a)consists of more than six people, and(b)takes place outdoors.(2) No person living in the Tier 2 area may participate in a gathering outside that area which—(a)consists of more than six people, and(b)takes place outdoors.(3) Sub-paragraphs (1) and (2) do not apply if any of the exceptions set out in paragraph 5 apply.(4) This paragraph does not permit a person to participate in a gathering in the Tier 2 area incontravention of paragraph 1(2) or 2(2) of Schedule 1 to the Health Protection (Coronavirus, LocalCOVID-19 Alert Level) (Very High) (England) Regulations 2020.

@buttery81

I just read that London is going into tier two lockdown from midnight tomorrow, which means no households mixing indoors.

My question is, can two households still mix in a restaurant or pub? Just asking because my brother and SIL were due to come to my house for lunch on Saturday with my nephew, which is no longer allowed. Could we book a restaurant instead?

It's a bit silly if we can as presumably it puts us all at more risk, but if it's a way around the rules then we will do it!

It's a bit silly to find a way around the rules while saying it puts everyone more at risk. This is the reason it's been moved into a stricter tier - surely you can do without a sunday dinner, or just have one in your own house without your brother and SIL - like everyone else is having too!

@DeliciouslyFemale

These people booked tables specifically, it wasn't chance

So they’re not spreading the virus, but the people that followed the rules and planned to meet up, but sit two metres apart, ARE spreading the virus? Does the virus magically stay in a wee bubble with the friends that happen to ‘bump’ into each other, then?

What is this argument even about? What do you want me to say?

If the rule was you can meet other households so long as you distance, then that would be the rule.

But at tier two the rule is you can't meet with other households full stop. Booking two tables to get round this rule is not complying.

There is an exception if you are giving birrh by the way which sounds helpful for mothers.
There are the usual ones to allow work gatherings for education and training, big households to meet the household eg if you have 20 children who live at home obviously you can gather with them indoors.
Weddings with 15 people okay too etc etc.
Exception for elite sports as before and this one:

Exception 14: protests(15) Exception 14 is that the gathering is for the purposes of protest and—(a)it has been organised by a business, a charitable, benevolent or philanthropic institution,a public body or a political body, and(b)the gathering organiser takes the required precautions in relation to the gathering (seeparagraph 9).

Other outdoor sports also still fine.

@buttery81. Do you have a garden? With a patio heater and a gazebo, you could all eat outside in the garden rather than trekking to a restaurant.

@MessAllOver

So, if they were eating in a restaurant and realised their friend was sitting at the next table, they’re not permitted to have a conversation? Away on!

The exact wording is this: "People must not meet with anybody outside their household or support bubble in any indoor setting, whether at home or in a public place."

So it does come down to whether you think talking to friends at the next table (whether premeditated or opportunistic) constitutes "meeting with" them.

I think happening upon them by chance is not meeting, booking deliberately for same venue same time is meeting.

I am not a lawyer though so defer to them!

So, if they were eating in a restaurant and realised their friend was sitting at the next table, they’re not permitted to have a conversation? Away on!

It’s ok to talk to the waiter though....

I wonder if a waiter who misses his friends could encourage them to dine at the restaurant he works at so he can see them? That way he could have little catch ups with them whilst he’s taking their orders etc?

@PracticingPerson. I'd probably agree with you on that. But I'd also say an opportunistic chat was still 'meeting'. Personally, I'd go for the Zoom approach or otherwise serve Sunday lunch in the garden...Suspect now's the time to invest in a patio heater.

I don't know how people have the energy to try to get round the rules

This is why we can't have nice things.