Are we sacrificing the young to save the elderly?

[RubyandBen]

Reading another thread where someone was accusing the OP of wanting to sacrifice the elderly re CV. But the longer this goes on the more education and the economy are screwed is it actually the other way round?

I wish this site allowed me to congratulate those opinions I agreed with , because there are many above on this subject that have an element of balance to them.

However User1471588124 states

‘The reason the NHS cant cope is because this country voted for 10 years of conservative austerity.’

100% pure emotion and 100% inaccurate.

Budgets rose by 1.4 per cent eachyearon average (adjusting for inflation) in the10 yearsbetween 2009/10to 2018/19, compared to the 3.7 per cent average rises since theNHSwas established.

Ref. www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget#:~:text=Budgets%20rose%20by%201.4%20per,since%20the%20NHS%20was%20established.

And User1471588124’s response was to MrsFrisbyMouse who quoted this gem:

‘had we not driven our social system support network into the ground over the last 10 years the death toll may not have been as high as it is.’

Who should take time to explain why I live in a country with almost no ‘social support system’; that is no free health care or financial support for the old or vulnerable. Why that country of 70 million (so greater than the UK) has only had 59 deaths.

A majority of families have at least 3 generations so is the youngest member is being sacrificed for the oldest?

Yes

Letting the virus run loose screws the economy.

Controlling virus spread with short sharp measures allows your economy to recover (look at China).

Oops I meant to write ^ this under that - it was another poster’s post.

Yes. You can’t leave people to die with no treatment though so not sure there’s an answer.

@Croleeen

Absolutely. It's crazy. The average age of a COVID death is 82. The average life expectancy is 81.16. I'm not saying death after 82 doesn't matter. My mum just turned 86. But would she expect us to give up the best part of our lives, going out, travelling, seeing friends, just to give her a couple more years at that age? Absolutely not. Anyone who has watched the David Attenborough documentary saying humans have overrun the planet because we have become too good at combatting disease among other things should realise how ridiculous it is to stifle our economic growth and the happiness of young people to ensure there are as many people kept alive as long as possible. The world has gone mad.

My thoughts exactly

World population is increasing. This is a problem. Birth rates aren't high though, the fact is people are living longer. If you wanted to be completely mercenary and heartless you could say a virus that particularly targets and kills elderly people is nature's way of culling the population. Very unpalatable I know.

@formerbabe
Disabled and very physically unwell younger people too, or just the elderly?

[quote gypsywater]@formerbabe
Disabled and very physically unwell younger people too, or just the elderly?[/quote]
I'm not saying I agree with what I posted. I don't want people to die. I'm not a monster. However, if nature is left to do its own thing without humans moral intervention then it's known as 'survival of the fittest'. It's not a pleasant concept I admit.

this makes me laugh - its like no one over 50 works - or runs companies - or are teachers - or university professors - or surgeons - hotel managers etc etc etc or anything of importance .

And even if you think the old are disposable they will be clogging up the beds if some young person has a serious car crash and needs intensive care .

Life /families/work are a multitude of different situations - it is not a black and white scenario with simple answers .

@formerbabe

but it wont be will it if young people cant access medical care because its full of covid patients ?

Anyway I still believe the vulnerable of all ages should be protected....I'm not advocating letting the virus run riot and sod the vulnerable members of society. I'm just saying from the point of view of nature, viruses are pretty useful for population control. However, we have evolved into a civilized society, thank god.

mmmm - my DIL is 27 and extremely high risk . So not quite sure how that argument stacks up.

[quote Unsure33]@formerbabe

but it wont be will it if young people cant access medical care because its full of covid patients ?[/quote]
I never said we should let the virus run riot and carry on as normal. I certainly don't see people as collateral damage.

@BurgerOnTheOrientExpress
I have no idea about the country you allude to.

But

www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/health-and-social-care-spending-cuts-linked-to-120000-excess-deaths-in-england/

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/aug/opinion-why-did-england-have-europes-worst-covid-figures-answer-starts-austerity

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14879

Yes a ‘civilised’ society that thinks nothing of culling thousands & thousands of animals at the first sign of disease in their populations?

We really are a very hypocritical species.

Mummy,

Seriously?!

Humans are the only species that even think about the wellbeing of other species.

To them, we are either a threat, insignificant or prey.

@larrygrylls

You think 8 billion soon projected to be 12 is a good thing then?

@MummyPop00

Yes a ‘civilised’ society that thinks nothing of culling thousands & thousands of animals at the first sign of disease in their populations?

We really are a very hypocritical species.

Well that’s an impressive digression. Wtf has controlling disease in other species got to do with it?

Do you think Boris should come out and say ‘sorry about the whole being old/vulnerable thing but it would awfully unfair on the badgers if we didn’t just bump you off’

[quote MummyPop00]@larrygrylls

You think 8 billion soon projected to be 12 is a good thing then?[/quote]
Projected to level off at 11/12billion and start decline due to falling birth rates?

Don’t stop reading the story half way through.

@Cornettoninja

Just pointing out our species’ hypocrisy. If you can’t acknowledge that objectively, without the emotional ‘intelligence’ that seems to binds us so much there was no point replying was there?

Just because humans invented Pot Noodles doesn’t give us anymore right to be here than those Badgers you’re on about. Only in our own contrived hierarchy.

*Projected to level off at 11/12billion and start decline due to falling birth rates?

Don’t stop reading the story half way through.*

I won’t. Fact remains, we will have to feed & water that 12 billion at the apex won’t we, even if not indefinitely. I suppose your think that will be achieved without problems? Then tell me why don’t we do that with only 8bn now?

Using the badger example they are a vector for a disease that harms humans therefore the simplest thing to do is remove them when identified as infected populations from our environment. If the situations were reversed and badgers had the intelligence and means to do the same I have no doubt they would. If I have to chose between outbreaks of TB and badgers being culled the badgers lose every time.

And yes I do have more right than a badger to be here by pure luck of being higher up the food/intelligence chain. Survival of the fittest when it comes to species winners and losers.

That also means I value my own species existence and believe it’s worth extraordinary measures to protect if necessary be that culling a population of badgers or living in a slightly different way to protect those who need protecting.

‘That also means I value my own species existence’

Don’t worry about that too much. Even after a million Covid deaths, we have added 62 million net to the planet this year so far.