Page 6 | How are vulnerable people still getting infected?

PracticingPerson · 14/10/2020 07:10

Exactly this, but I'm sure that will be looked upon as selfish by the usual suspects.

I don't look at is as selfish as it primarily affects oneself, but I consider it self-defeating and stupid. They are damaging their own interests. But humans (including me at times!) have sacrificed their medium and long term interests for short term gain. This is one of the reasons we have fucked the planet.

Humans are stupid. Sadly this applies to our covid response too.

WentworthPrison · 14/10/2020 07:13

I'm a teacher and I've had to go back to working at school. While I haven't caught it yet, I've got no doubt that I will. There's no proper distancing or masks in primary.

Danglingmod · 14/10/2020 07:23

Underlying conditions also includes devel disorders and mental health conditions including.

My 20 year old son has Aspergers and attendant anxiety. If he caught Covid and died of it, it would go down as another "oh, never mind, underlying health conditions" when he's actually physically incredibly healthy.

FlipperSkipper · 14/10/2020 12:20

Because when people like my neighbour who is a carer in a care home had house parties throughout lockdown (whilst still working) what hope is there for vulnerable people when those who care for them ignore the guidelines?

Because vulnerable people aren’t some other hidden group, they’re people who have children who need education, they have mortgages that need paying.

Letsgetgoing123 · 14/10/2020 20:12

That’s awful @FlipperSkipper, utterly selfish.

Orangeblossom7777 · 14/10/2020 20:32

Some of the older people I know just try not to think about it and carry on, since the spring I have known:

Lady in 80s off to Majorca
Older couple one with cancer, off to Amsterdam
My elderly dad off from central Scotland on the train to England
other off on a cruise (think that was cancelled)
Others visiting relatives in hospital, living alone and very independent, travelling on public transport, with conditions such as Parkinson's and dementia.

Meantime, they go on about young people spreading the virus, but seem somehow exempt themselves.

SeaDreaming · 14/10/2020 20:38

I'm in the shielding category. I shielded like a good little shielder for all the time it was happening.

I went away for two nights in a guest house by the sea a couple of weeks ago, on my own, and the benefit to my mental health was huge.

The feeling that somebody was (or still is) going to tell me I wasn't allowed to be outside my home is/was kind of at the back of my mind, though.

Babyroobs · 14/10/2020 20:43

@mashainpink

Genuine question and I hope I'm not coming across as goady in asking.

The death figures coming out of hospitals now is very worrying.

We know who the at-risk people are now. If you're old, with known underlying health conditions that are a contributing factor to hospitalisation/death with Covid, or obese, how are you even getting close enough to infected people to get Covid in the first place??

If I fell in to one of the categories above, you'd bet I'd be masked up to the fucking hilt. Limited contact with my household, not getting anywhere near 2m of other people, wearing gloves, masks, a face shield whilst I'm out, disinfecting all my shopping, asking to WFH (if I could).

Or are the majority of these hospital acquired infections? In which case hospitals need better infection control?

Or have very old people had enough of shielding and taking the risk of death because they'd soon die of boredom/loneliness?

Or is it something else I'm missing?

My dh is at risk. He has severe asthma and takes an immunosuppressive treatment. He has to go to work although obviously tries to minimise risk but he cannot do his job from home long term. he is the main breadwinner so what are we meant to do. We also have 4 teenage kids, one a student, one working two jobs in high risk areas, one at college and one at school. Are they never to be in the same room as their dad in case they put him at risk ? Should I tell 19 year old DS he can't go to his jobs in case he brings it home ?

Fizbosshoes · 14/10/2020 20:53

I heard (on MN) that 25% of cases were caught in hospitals.

Letsgetgoing123 · 14/10/2020 21:06

I have a great deal of sympathy with those who were shielding, who are now back in the workplace, in some cases the frontline, just as cases are increasing again.

It does sort of beg the question what was the point of asking people to shield the first time round if not the second? Or why it was not stopped earlier when cases had significantly dropped?

On the other hand I keep hearing of “self-imposed shielders” who have decided they need to shield, despite not receiving notification to, and wonder how they have managed to keep doing it since March, practically and financially..... How have they not gone stir crazy? Why would you impose this on yourself without the medical need?

IvorHughJarrs · 14/10/2020 21:15

@Orangeblossom7777

Some of the older people I know just try not to think about it and carry on, since the spring I have known:

Lady in 80s off to Majorca
Older couple one with cancer, off to Amsterdam
My elderly dad off from central Scotland on the train to England
other off on a cruise (think that was cancelled)
Others visiting relatives in hospital, living alone and very independent, travelling on public transport, with conditions such as Parkinson's and dementia.

Meantime, they go on about young people spreading the virus, but seem somehow exempt themselves.

I have great sympathy with older people who want to carry on but the problem is the effect they could have on others if they become infected. There may be other vulnerable elderly people in the household, NHS or care staff they cross paths with, family members who might have to help if they became ill, etc

Cloudburstagain · 14/10/2020 21:19

Many teachers are vulnerable and have no PPE or masks.

flowerycurtain · 14/10/2020 21:21

Some choose too. My ECV father in law hugs my kids and uses my loo at work despite me asking him not too.

(Farm so we cannot avoid seeing him if he wants to work!)

He's 83 and is not prepared to live his last few years shielding apparently. No respect for our feelings of guilt if it's my kids that pass it on.

babygroups · 14/10/2020 21:25

Seriously? Lots of clinically vulnerable people are out at work, their children are at school or childcare, they're being cared for by carers at home or in a nursing home, they're in hospital etc. (Old people were never told to shield btw)

I'm in the vulnerable category as I'm heavily pregnant and have mild asthma, my husband has quite bad asthma so is vulnerable too. I work in a frontline welfare role and my workplace refuses to challenge members of the public on mask wearing as it could be discriminatory.
Our son is at nursery.
What would you have us do?

FuzzyPuffling · 14/10/2020 21:26

This is turning into an "older people bashing thread". Again.

Dustballs · 14/10/2020 21:27

Sorry I haven’t read the whole thread OP.

But - my DD should be classed as vulnerable but no longer is. She’s been shoved back in school and we’re threatened with a fine if we take her out.

I’m presuming it’s just as shit for vulnerable adults.

Is anyone classed as vulnerable anymore? There’s no special treatment for anyone. No one’s protected.

Piwlyfbicsly · 14/10/2020 21:33

Because some people actually have to go out to work or have children who go to school? I don’t really understand the question 😬

user1497207191 · 14/10/2020 22:54

Because people coming into contact with them havn't been careful and give it to them, whether family, carers, delivery drivers, or even people not keeping 2 metres away from them in shops etc. They cant live in a vacuum and never come into contact with others.

MadameBlobby · 15/10/2020 07:56

@user1497207191

Because people coming into contact with them havn't been careful and give it to them, whether family, carers, delivery drivers, or even people not keeping 2 metres away from them in shops etc. They cant live in a vacuum and never come into contact with others.

Or the people who are vulnerable haven’t been careful themselves.

SisyphusAndTheRockOfUntidiness · 15/10/2020 08:10

My teenage NDN who has a serious disability on the shielding list, has just tested positive. Their family member, who is their carer & also has an illness on the shielding list, is also showing symptoms. They've both barely been out of the house since March (basically just clapping for the NHS), & their car hasn't moved at all since June.

Letsgetgoing123 · 15/10/2020 08:14

@SisyphusAndTheRockOfUntidiness

That’s awful how do they think they caught it?

PS what is an NDN?

Letsgetgoing123 · 15/10/2020 08:19

@user1497207191

Because people coming into contact with them havn't been careful and give it to them, whether family, carers, delivery drivers, or even people not keeping 2 metres away from them in shops etc. They cant live in a vacuum and never come into contact with others.

I’m not sure it’s that simple, but I am interested in how it is mainly spreading.

Eg is it when you’re in close contact for a longer time or can it happen with a more “passing contact”?

CherryPavlova · 15/10/2020 08:32

How do people catch it? Huge numbers of ways. Mainly we don’t fully understand transmission routes. It apparently stays on mobile phones for up to 28 days. One could assume it stays on other similar surfaces for the same length of time.

Those who may be at increased risk still need to work, to look after their children, to eat.

Masks reduce risks but many are worn badly, not adequate to be effective and people avoid using them. They are only worn in certain situations. Masks don’t stop the infection, they reduce spread.

People not bothering to test because the system is an ineffective Tory pocket filler. Testing might be needing to isolate so better not to be tested, if you are not on a substantive contract.

Locus staff going between different wards, hospitals or care homes, taking the virus with them. Untested people being admitted to care homes. People lying about isolating and symptoms so they can work/see boyfriends or girlfriends/send children to school/go shopping.

Partying and breaching rules because they feel they don’t apply.

It’s not exactly hard to see how it spreads. How many people even wash their hands after using a lavatory- the correct answer is not many.

Letsgetgoing123 · 15/10/2020 08:33

Also if the carers have school aged children in their household, they may be at more risk of picking it up and passing it on.

I’m sure most are behaving sensibly and presume/hope the Ones not following the rules are the minority.

Sewsosew · 15/10/2020 08:56

DH is ECV. His work said he can stay at home if he wants (he’s still going in, his work is very safe). He doesn’t go to shops really (a handful of times since March) and only has seen people outside.
We’ve also not been anywhere but DD is back to school.

I know loads of people though who are seeing (vulnerable) parents, going out to restaurants and pubs whenever they get the chance. Socialising.

My CV NDN is travelling 50 miles 3 times a week to look after 4 GC, in 2 different schools and a nursery. One parent is a teacher in another school. She’s also been in and out of other CV relatives houses socialising. AND she works in the hospital twice a week.

I think from what I see a large number of people are over being careful, especially if they have to go to work anyway.