How are vulnerable people still getting infected?

[mashainpink]

Genuine question and I hope I'm not coming across as goady in asking.

The death figures coming out of hospitals now is very worrying.

We know who the at-risk people are now. If you're old, with known underlying health conditions that are a contributing factor to hospitalisation/death with Covid, or obese, how are you even getting close enough to infected people to get Covid in the first place??

If I fell in to one of the categories above, you'd bet I'd be masked up to the fucking hilt. Limited contact with my household, not getting anywhere near 2m of other people, wearing gloves, masks, a face shield whilst I'm out, disinfecting all my shopping, asking to WFH (if I could).

Or are the majority of these hospital acquired infections? In which case hospitals need better infection control?

Or have very old people had enough of shielding and taking the risk of death because they'd soon die of boredom/loneliness?

Or is it something else I'm missing?

Um I am very vulnerable to covid. I have a primary school child and a child in nursery. I have to work because you know I have bills and a mortgage pay for. I live in fear of catching it every day. But if/ when I do I will be entirely unsurprised. Still most on mumsnet would just see me as being expendable anyway. Just another one of those people with "pre- existing health conditions".

There's a difference between people classed as Extremely Clinically Vulnerable (a really limited group), who are supposed to take extra care, although generally not, currently, shield -- and 'vulnerable' people, which is a much larger group including people with underlying conditions like asthma, diabetes, kidney issues, obesity, age who will still tend to do less well with Covid but are expected to go about their lives taking the standard precautions like everyone else.

DS is vulnerable, borderline extremely, according to his doctor. He was shielded before but is now back at school, which is really scary.

The average age of people in ICU with Covid is 60, so not that old.

It’s because of SCHOOLS!

MN bleated for them to be open and now MN is surprised at the infection figures. 🤦🏻

Vulnerable people have to send kids to school.

I am ECV. I have a ds at sixth form college in a 'bubble' of around 500 or so, there are cases at his college, they are only sending home the people who sit next to the infected student to isolate. My dh is in a public facing role. I could pick it up from either of them unless I go back into extreme shielding which I did in the spring but really don't want to again because it broke me a little bit. DD is at uni so staying away but hopefully will come home for Christmas.

I have to go on living my life, so I just have to balance the risk and realise I will probably get it at some time.

Because firstly, people have to work and secondly, it's a virus which means it does what a virus does. You can follow the rules religiously but rules won't magically protect you from getting infected, although some people on this site have convinced themselves it will.

I am ecv and was shielding. I’m a single parent, and have 2 dc at primary school and an older child at work. I’m lucky I’m working from home so that risk is not there. As shielding is paused people have to go out to work and kids have to go to school.

I'm clinically vulnerable, borderline ecv. I have two young children at school, so I have to do the school run twice a day, which with the best of intentions, is within an area that makes it hard to distance from soother people. My children are in contact with 60 other children, plus lots of teachers, with little to no social distancing, or masks (primary). I am back at work in a nursery, which is very, very much not covid secure. We can't distance from the children and there isn't space to distance from colleagues. I don't know if you've met any young children op, but most don't remember to cover their coughs or sneezes and they lick everything. I am currently ill with a bad cough, tested negative for covid, but it's the third illness I've caught from them in six weeks. If one brings covid in, we staff don't stand a hope of avoiding it. Right now it's a case of crossing our fingers and hoping for the best, but my word am I scared of catching it!

Stop blaming the vulnerable who have a higher risk You have a risk too.
How about blaming the idiots in pubs not doing any SD. The idiots who don't wear masks.
Or those who dont quarantine after holidays. Then there's those with symptoms who don't self isolate. That's who I am annoyed with.

I’m cv as is my husband. I also care for my ecv elderly Mum. I’m a teacher and have two primary aged children. I spend 6+ hours a day in a poorly ventilated classroom and the government doesn’t want me to wear PPE.

Medically vulnerable families (with school age children) still have to send their children into school or are threatened with fines.

It really isn’t very surprising that clinically vulnerable and extremely clinically vulnerable people are still getting sick.

I'm not:

1. Old (just under 50, so to my kids I'm a coffin dodger).
2. Overweight - BMI of 20.8 allegedly.

I'm CEV due to an illness I have, where the medication leaves me with next to no immune system and vulnerable to all sorts of bacterial and viral infections. I've got one now I'm getting over and have had several this year.

I have to work, take kids to school and to the college bus and have a "normal" life with my wife.

I've been told a corking dose of the flu will land me in hospital and could end up killing me, so covid isn't a concern in the least.

It is what it is and I'm not going around masked, gloved and visored up. What kind of a life is that? It may sound strange to some, but dying doesn't frighten me in the least. When my time is up, that's it.

[quote mashainpink]**@NervousInYorkshire* and @Thisisneverending* I see. I think because we as a family have been following the rules we might struggle to see how others can get infected [/quote]
The biggest danger is from breathing. It's not really avoidable.

@Motorina

The clinically vulnerable have to go to work, have kids in school, provide childcare, work for the NHS, need to buy groceries, have family members who work, have carers come in, have to go to the dentist or doctor, need to go sign on, need to go to the bank, have to take the car for MOT, or are just unlucky.

Not all those in hospital are clinically vulnerable.

These two reasons together are why allowing it to run through society whilst shielding the vulnerable will inevitably lead to more deaths.

THIS.

So much this.

@Enrico

The only way to "protect the vulnerable" is to keep infection rates low by everyone doing what they can to limit transmission. That's it. There is no other way. But, the government isn't facilitating that, so rates are rising, so vulnerable people are getting infected.

ALSO THIS.

@NervousInYorkshire

Depends on your definition of fit and able, but a fair chunk of shielders, in non covid times and since then, wouldn't class themselves as disabled or in especially poor health, especially regarding well controlled underlying conditions that they're usually able to live with.

Absolutely.

The vile propaganda that "clinically vulnerable to Covid-19" means "were about to die any day now anyway" makes me bloody livid.

(As much for the untruth as the sociopathy)

The op is a masterclass in victim blaming and othering.

The places the virus is being transmitted include:

• school
• work
• supermarkets
• doctors/clinics
• care homes

Even if we include all the places the government has actively encouraged people to go but are not essential - pubs, cafes, on holiday, tourist towns for example - most people catch it doing ordinary essential things.

The government wants you to blame the vulnerable, but that is wrong.

There is too much virus circulating now, too few measures and virtually useless test and trace.

We live in a country where people must choose between feeding their children or self-isolating.

The government has let this happen.

I have a family member who is obese.
They are a teacher - a food and nutrition teacher!!! I know, bloody ridiculous.

Maybe some people have taken the (correct) view that although it's a good idea to take some sensible precautions, there's more to life than simply avoiding death at all costs.

I'm vulnerable with asthma and an autoimmune condition and I live with my elderly mum (with vascular dementia) and 2 teens. However, I am still teaching 32 kids crammed into a non-covid secure class.

We shut yesterday as a member of my class is positive.

Well said @PracticingPerson

OP hasn't been back recently.

I wonder if this thread has helped her to see? She has more than enough posts to show her that "following the rules" isnt any guarantee of a vulnerable person not catching covid. Especially when kids are in school /they have to work, or are teachers themselves.

Because they are part of society.

@Buckwheat80

Maybe some people have taken the (correct) view that although it's a good idea to take some sensible precautions, there's more to life than simply avoiding death at all costs.

Well maybe but that's a very stupid view because whilst I have no risk factors for covid, I would like the NHS to have space for me if I get knocked off my bike and funnily enough I would like a functioning economy which will only happen when the virus is under control.

Shortsighted stupid government plus shortsighted stupid citizens = rising cases and no improvement on the horizon.

@Buckwheat80

Maybe some people have taken the (correct) view that although it's a good idea to take some sensible precautions, there's more to life than simply avoiding death at all costs.

Exactly this, but I'm sure that will be looked upon as selfish by the usual suspects.

Sorry @mashainpink but you know the majority of people asked to shield weren’t old? Young people who have kids in schools who work and who’s partners work? So the only way they can stay safe is to pull their lids from school (not allowed) and quit their jobs along with their partners? So no food/mortgage payable now.

The elderly were advised to distance but not as risky.

You know a lot of the sheilding people are still doing as much as they can?

If you’re following the rules but still have kids I school and visiting a supermarket you can still get it as much as the next person. If you’re visiting friends then of course you’re going to get it.

News flash. People without underlying health problems get admitted to hospital with it too. Also “underlying health problems” also include anyone “just” on a blood pressure tablet or cholesterol tablet. So the majority of people in their 50’s then who’s consider themselves otherwise healthy.

Actually fuck off. We have friends who are shielding still and not elderly so it’s ok they can hide at home or die as they’ve lived their lives