How are vulnerable people still getting infected?

[mashainpink]

Genuine question and I hope I'm not coming across as goady in asking.

The death figures coming out of hospitals now is very worrying.

We know who the at-risk people are now. If you're old, with known underlying health conditions that are a contributing factor to hospitalisation/death with Covid, or obese, how are you even getting close enough to infected people to get Covid in the first place??

If I fell in to one of the categories above, you'd bet I'd be masked up to the fucking hilt. Limited contact with my household, not getting anywhere near 2m of other people, wearing gloves, masks, a face shield whilst I'm out, disinfecting all my shopping, asking to WFH (if I could).

Or are the majority of these hospital acquired infections? In which case hospitals need better infection control?

Or have very old people had enough of shielding and taking the risk of death because they'd soon die of boredom/loneliness?

Or is it something else I'm missing?

Two CEV teachers I used to work with were told to come back to work in July when other classes opened again. They were made to feel as if it was their duty despite guidance to the contrary. One is now off with covid and feeling extremely unwell. They could only have caught it at school/ on the journey to school as have not seen friends / family and are still getting supermarket deliveries. Both were/ are working alongside colleagues who are also CV or CEV. There are no measures in place to protect them. They've been totally forgotten as well with the introduction of the tiers. No mention. None whatsoever.

I’m obese as well. Kids at school, husband out at work, and I wasn’t shielding so still out and about. Just being careful as I have been throughout and would’ve been even if I wasn’t fat.

@RingPiece

Two CEV teachers I used to work with were told to come back to work in July when other classes opened again. They were made to feel as if it was their duty despite guidance to the contrary. One is now off with covid and feeling extremely unwell. They could only have caught it at school/ on the journey to school as have not seen friends / family and are still getting supermarket deliveries. Both were/ are working alongside colleagues who are also CV or CEV. There are no measures in place to protect them. They've been totally forgotten as well with the introduction of the tiers. No mention. None whatsoever.

That is really fucking shite. Poor people.

Because lots of vulnerable people need multiple carers?

Go and read all the threads that say "I've had enough, I'm ignoring restrictions".

I’m sorry I don’t know what ecv means, but I do know of a few people who were previously shielding, who have now returned to work, and are some of the worst for abiding by the guidelines.

I do find this quite surprising to be honest as I’d have thought they’d have taken more precautions.

I can only speak for the ones I know. But some are refusing to follow their local lockdown rules and insisting on still seeing their grandchildren from different households, despite the rules being no indoor mixing. This has extended to overnight stays as well.

I’m not sure if it’s lack of intelligence, not fully understanding the rules, or not giving a toss about them.

Because The Vulnerable™ are human beings, part of society, have children, jobs, caring responsibilities, social, practical, emotional and care needs etc etc.

You can't expect them to stay in the fucking cupboard indefinitely just because it make your life easier.

Ecv= extremely clinically vulnerable (shielding category, generally speaking). Shielding has always been guidance, so voluntary.
Cv = clinically vulnerable, but not necessarily in the shielding category.

I suppose a lot of people choosing not to follow current guidance either never bothered, or are just burnt out with it.

I work in a university and, contrary to popular belief, many of us are not teaching online but face-to-face. Plenty of older and clinically vulnerable staff have been made to go back to the classroom while the virus rips through campus. Students are turning up to class with symptoms; many are not admitting that they're sick as they don't want their whole flat to blame them when they're all placed in self-isolation for two weeks.

Because the government refuses to bring back shielding so ECV have no choice but to go to work outside the home and attend school /send their dc to school.

Because they're still living their lives.

When we were allowed to travel in the UK again I took my DD to the coast and the average age of all the holidaymaker there was at least 70.

When I'm out and about, I see more elderly/older people in pubs and restaurants than any other demographic.

That's why.

I’m classed as extremely vulnerable.
I have multiple doctors and hospital appointments face to face that can’t be done over the phone. My DP works in a public sector job where he comes into contact with multiple people every day and whilst I do the majority of my job from home sometimes I’m needed in person.

Young enough to have kids in school. DH T1 diabetic and three teenage sons in school. 2 in North Wales and 1 on Merseyside, so not safe at all

I am ECV and was shielding. I am desperate for the Govt to tell us to shield again as I can’t work from home and have to attend a place where there has been COVID cases.

If I stay home without the Govt demanding it, I don’t get paid, so the ‘work from home where possible’ is a crock of shit 😩

we are all fit and able so I guess "following the rules" is easy for us

Its fuck all to do with finding it easy to follow the Rules

Its just that even following the rules doesn’t mean you won’t get it

Or indeed, that if you get it that you must have broken the rules

CV due to asthma, and I work as a teacher. Can’t exactly work from home!

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

we are all fit and able so I guess "following the rules" is easy for us

Its fuck all to do with finding it easy to follow the Rules

Its just that even following the rules doesn’t mean you won’t get it

Or indeed, that if you get it that you must have broken the rules

Yes the rules are irrelevant at this point. You can meet up indoors with five new people every day of the week, but that doesn’t make it less of a risky activity.

But the fact remains that there are riskier and less risky activities. We know a lot now about how the virus spreads: environments with poor ventilation (indoors), high density of people, people generating aerosols - talking, laughing, singing - without wearing masks, and ones in which you remain indoors for a prolonged period of time (duration of exposure also matters). So you can’t eliminate the risks but of course you can significantly reduce your chances of getting it (if you have the luxury of doing so).

As for why people are getting it, go to MN threads where elderly grandparents insist on meeting up indoors with all their DGC who go to multiple different schools and universities - “it’s their risk to take” appears to be the consensus.

I would think that many people at risk will have a higher than average likelihood of requiring medical appointments/carers. How do they get to the medical clinic. taxi, public transport and hospital transport may be problematic? How about carers who treat many patients?

I'm ECV and shielding as much as I can. But I still have to go to the chemist to collect prescriptions (3 week wait otherwise), and my hospital appointment is an actual in person one. I need petrol too for that, and have an electrician coming to repair some lights (I've had no hallway lights for 4 months!)
Also noticed delivery drivers aren't as distanced any more, they try and hand stuff to me or don't step back

Oh and I'm not seeing my parents as it's too risky due to their socialising/pubs/restaurants etc. I suspect they actually both have Covid at the minute but neither are being tested. Or isolating yes I shouted a lot

@NervousInYorkshire

Ecv= extremely clinically vulnerable (shielding category, generally speaking). Shielding has always been guidance, so voluntary. Cv = clinically vulnerable, but not necessarily in the shielding category.

I suppose a lot of people choosing not to follow current guidance either never bothered, or are just burnt out with it.

Thanks @NervousInYorkshire

I think the people I know are partly burnt out by it and partly cross with the rules because they “weren’t fair”.

They seem to take it personally that they can’t meet up with family (not realising it’s to protect them) when pubs and gyms could still open etc.

So to teach the government a lesson they decide to do exactly as they please. Also they fall into the fatal error of thinking its family so it’s safe. (forgetting grandkids can be asymptomatic).

I don't know if it's necessarily to teach the govt a lesson, more that they might perceive unfairness in being expected to withdraw from society and physical family contact, even if it is for their own protection, or just mentally balance the risks of going against guidance, against the mental risks of strictly (if at all) complying with it.

Well let's see... we still need to work in roles that we deal with the public, go shopping, get public transport, send our kids to school... and then you have a fucking crap test and trace system that doesn't work properly, people ignoring the guidance, sending their kids to school with 'just a cold it's not covid' "my cough isn't really a symptom we have this every year" (they came from a person who tested positive along with their child after being sent home from school for coughing and they only got a test because school wouldn't let them back otherwise thankfully!) , the healthy many failing to isolate because they cant be arsed...doesn't take a frickin genius to figure it out.

I've been ok personally with distancing etc - I don't have any family/partner/kids at all, or close friends nearby, and I've been in that position for years. If I had people around I wanted to hug or spend time indoors with, I would probably feel very differently about my circumstances and restrictions.

Because ‘they’ are people with lives and responsibilities just like ‘us’ and because wearing a mask won’t protect the from others. Masks (except certain fitted medical masks) mean that the wearer is projecting less aerosol and droplet emissions so it protects others, not the wearer.