How are vulnerable people still getting infected?

[mashainpink]

Genuine question and I hope I'm not coming across as goady in asking.

The death figures coming out of hospitals now is very worrying.

We know who the at-risk people are now. If you're old, with known underlying health conditions that are a contributing factor to hospitalisation/death with Covid, or obese, how are you even getting close enough to infected people to get Covid in the first place??

If I fell in to one of the categories above, you'd bet I'd be masked up to the fucking hilt. Limited contact with my household, not getting anywhere near 2m of other people, wearing gloves, masks, a face shield whilst I'm out, disinfecting all my shopping, asking to WFH (if I could).

Or are the majority of these hospital acquired infections? In which case hospitals need better infection control?

Or have very old people had enough of shielding and taking the risk of death because they'd soon die of boredom/loneliness?

Or is it something else I'm missing?

I am vulnerable and generally very isolated, but I had to go to A&E last week and I am really paranoid that I might have got infected there. I am being very very careful, but sometimes it just can’t be avoided.

Following the rules doesn’t mean you can’t catch it. Otherwise it would be like wearing a badge saying you’re a rule breaker, which I quite like the idea of actually.

Lots of people get carers in, need to go to hospital for treatments, get on public transport/taxi to get there. A lot of vulnerable still need to go to work. The list goes on really. People have caught it just from having groceries delivered having never left the house! Whilst not common it can happen.

1m social distancing in hospitality is also not a ‘covid secure’ environment. However I do understand the economic implications of not having dropped it from 2m to 1m.

I work with a type 1 diabetic. He's a complete dickhead and played football on Saturday, and then one of his teammates tested positive (he was awaiting the result when they played ). He's now self-isolating for a fortnight.

I see. I think because we as a family have been following the rules we might struggle to see how others can get infected sad

Did you really not know that many vulnerable people are working age and have to leave their homes to do their job? .

You sound very privileged.

The vast majority of people who are dying are way too old to be getting it from work or from their kids going to school. The average age of people dying of Covid is 82. So where are they contracting it from?

The reality is that the more vulnerable you are, the less likely you are to be able to control your environment and personal contacts successfully.

Highly vulnerable elderly people have far more contacts than average with care and medical professionals. Care that often can't be provided at a social distance.

Disabled and other vulnerable younger people are more likely than average to be in low-wage jobs which cannot be done on-line. They may also have school age children and rely on elderly parents for childcare.

The idea that you can "just shield the vulnerable" seems to be an opinion mainly held by people whose middle-class jobs allow them to earn a living while sitting on their couch.

The reality is that the more vulnerable you are, the less likely you are to be able to control your environment and personal contacts successfully.

Highly vulnerable elderly people have far more contacts than average with care and medical professionals. Care that often can't be provided at a social distance.

Yes, this is what it is I think. It's harder for an elderly vulnerable person to isolate themselves.

So where are they contracting it from?

Where do you think they are getting it from? People in their 80s often need medical and social care, which brings them into regular contact with people in the age groups who have the highest infection rates.

Because we're teachers, doctors, nurses, carers, STILL WORKING AS KEY WORKERS.

It is AIRBORNE although our government won't admit it.

I’m vulnerable but have to go to work and school. Two people have tested positive from my workplace week before last. It’s only a matter of time until I get it. I will have to deal with that when it happens. Noting else I can do.

The average age of people dying of Covid is 82. So where are they contracting it from?

Many elderly people refuse to stay at home I work in area with a high elderly population and they are all out and about at the shops every day, possibly because they don't have the knowledge /tech to shop online or possibly because they crave the human contact. Half of all those who died in Scotland during the first wave contracted the virus whilst in hospital for other conditions. The death stats state died 'with covid' btw, not from Covid. The overwhelming majority of those who have died have existing illness.

I mean my children have to go to school
Not me!

As well as the high risk people having to work out of the home, the lag between infection, symptoms, hospitalisation and death means that people carry on mixing with others, thinking the risk is low and then realise too late that actually infections are increasing. Plenty of posts on here from people who are of course going to carry on seeing elderly relatives indoors because they’ve agreed they’re happy with the risk.
My PIL in an area with low cases so far are continuing much as normal and could be caught out if rates were to go up. My parents in a high rate area (tier 2) are being more careful but have medical appointments that will put them at risk.
I would have liked to see much more funding given to enforcement of Covid secure rules in hospitality and workplaces, it’s hugely unfair to restaurants and pubs that tried to reopen safely that others were cramming people in.

@Percypiglets I don’t think the government has ever denied that it is airborne.

[quote GreyishDays]Not everyone in hospital is vulnerable or old though.

In this study of 10,000 patients 29% were under 60.
www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30316-7/fulltext[/quote]
I know it’s awful, he actually isn’t classed as that vulnerable either, slightly overweight maybe and he is in his early 50s.
His daughter is fully recovered, his wife hasn’t caught it thankfully. I spoke to her last night, she is in absolute pieces.

Oops quoted wrong person above!

I know it’s awful, he actually isn’t classed as that vulnerable either, slightly overweight maybe and he is in his early 50s.
His daughter is fully recovered, his wife hasn’t caught it thankfully. I spoke to her last night, she is in absolute pieces.

You do know that shielding is paused? So every extremely vulnerable person and their family members have to go back to work? In schools, hospitals, care homes, prisons, supermarkets, as police officers etc. Places where it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to socially distance?

The number of households that would need to shield would be huge, to let it rip through. And then for how long.... Should children of vulnerable parents miss out on education 'for the economy'?
Absolutely not!

The statistics Whitty presented the other day showed that the age groups of those currently hospitalised with covid were mostly elderly people not necessarily the age groups to be having a lot of contact with school age children which many on this thread are attributing to the rise in ECV people contracting it.
The graphs showed that whilst the elderly have a lower cases than those younger they are more likely to need hospital care.

&
Australian Research has shown evidence that covid lingers on surfaces for considerable time - weeks in some cases

@ChaChaCha2012

we as a family have been following the rules we might struggle to see how others can get infected sad

You know the rules don't make you immune? The majority of people who catch it are doing the same as you.

This

I said on another thread that i felt covid was one of the few illnesses you got the blame for getting

No one says ‘gosh how did you catch that cold...ive been really good and not caught a cold’

The number of people who could reasonably be classed as particularly vulnerable is huge, and many are working outside the home, living with others who work outside the home or go to school/nursery, caring for others in different households, having to access healthcare outside the home for themselves or with another. Wearing a mask is unlikely to offer them significant protection, it's more to reduce the viral load others are exposed to.

Limited contact with your household is not very sustainable, especially if you have responsibilities such as childcare within the home. For many who live alone, it isn't realistic to expect them to isolate completely even if none of the above apply. Minimal contact with others is bound to occur.

The 'vulnerable' are a huge section of society with complex real lives like everyone else.

Also, do not forget that no one knows how they will react, severe cases occur among those with no known vulnerability.

@mumwon

& Australian Research has shown evidence that covid lingers on surfaces for considerable time - weeks in some cases

Yes.... in complete darkness.