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Sounds like Boris wants Manchester in tier 3

105 replies

Gobacktothe90s · 12/10/2020 16:52

He mentioned about hoping MPs would allow Manchester to go into tier 3 but isn't it up to him anyway even if Andy Burnham says no?

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 09:44

London MPs currently in a meeting with Helen Waitley (sorry not sure of spelling) about new restrictions, so Sky are expecting them to give an indication of the situation in the next ten minutes or so.

Then she is meeting Lancashire MPs at 10.15 and Greater Manchester MPs at 10.45.

So timings accordingly about when well will have an idea of whats happening.

What that means for Warrington I don't know but I guess it depends on what region the government or skynews think Warrington is in today. (local joke for anyone who reads the Warrington Guardian seeing as in the past week its apparently being in the Liverpool City region and historically having been part of Merseyside)

If Greater Manchester, Lancashire AND Liverpool are T3 but Warrington ISN'T despite the local situation my mind boogles and I swear maps need to be sent.

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 09:56

Tier 2 for London from tomorrow night (from midnight tomorrow apparently) source skynews

MarshaBradyo · 15/10/2020 09:57

Tier 2 for London is the right way to go I reckon.

We went from watch list to tier 1 and loosening doesn’t make sense

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 10:39

Inzamam Rashid @inzyrashid
NEW: Sources tell me No10 have told GM council leaders they are set to go into Tier 3 AND they have been given the extra cash they’ve wanted. @SkyNews

This is a huge win for @AndyBurnhamGM and local Greater Manchester leaders who’ve wanted a better financial package if they go into Tier 3. More details to come. @SkyNews

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 10:50

Rob Powell @robpowellnews
NEW - Lancashire MPs say they have been told by govt the county is staying in tier 2

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 11:11

Burnham was going to do a press conference now. But thats been cancelled.

It now being reported that 'no decision has been made' and that Hancock will not make an announcement on Manchester nor Lancashire today.

Piss up. Brewery.

userxx · 15/10/2020 11:21

This is painful.

Flaxmeadow · 15/10/2020 11:23

Burnham was going to do a press conference now. But thats been cancelled.

It now being reported that 'no decision has been made' and that Hancock will not make an announcement on Manchester nor Lancashire today.

Piss up. Brewery

And whose fault is that?

Who does Burnham think he represents anyway? He was elected by a fraction of the population of Greater Manchester and won by a small margin of a small vote. Did most people in the county of Greater Manchester even want a "Manchester" mayor in the first place? I doubt it

ginberry4 · 15/10/2020 11:27

Bbc news website are reporting Manchester will be in tier 3 from Saturday

CrappleUmble · 15/10/2020 11:41

@Flaxmeadow

Burnham was going to do a press conference now. But thats been cancelled.

It now being reported that 'no decision has been made' and that Hancock will not make an announcement on Manchester nor Lancashire today.

Piss up. Brewery

And whose fault is that?

Who does Burnham think he represents anyway? He was elected by a fraction of the population of Greater Manchester and won by a small margin of a small vote. Did most people in the county of Greater Manchester even want a "Manchester" mayor in the first place? I doubt it

He won by a vast margin, in fact. Every borough too. If you want to make the representation argument, get that bit right.

But really, there's no level at which our GM elected representatives are happy with the way central government are handling it. Johnson has managed to unite Andy Burnham and the Tory backbenchers on the closures issue, which is an impressive achievement.

Flaxmeadow · 15/10/2020 11:50

He won by a vast margin, in fact. Every borough too. If you want to make the representation argument, get that bit right

No he did not win by a vast margin and hardly anyone in GM voted in the mayor elections anyway.

CrappleUmble · 15/10/2020 11:58

Yes he did. This isn't a matter of opinion. He got nearly two thirds of the votes cast.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Greater_Manchester_mayoral_election

It was an overwhelming victory. You really need to start looking figures up before arguing about them. It's perfectly possible to make the (valid) point about low turnout whilst not saying things that are so obviously wrong.

But as I said, the strength of Burnham's position here is that even if you think he himself isn't representative, you can choose any other tier or type of local politician and there's also significant opposition to how the Tory government are handling this. They're pissing off their own backbenchers.

Flaxmeadow · 15/10/2020 12:04

How many people in GM voted crumble?

CrappleUmble · 15/10/2020 12:08

@Flaxmeadow

How many people in GM voted crumble?
Try looking at the stats I kindly linked you to. I've done my bit taking the horse to water.

As I said, if you want to argue he's not representative because the turnout was low, that's reasonable. You were still entirely wrong to claim he won by a small margin.

Meanwhile, can you tell us which of the GM elected representatives, at any level at all, support the way the government is handling this, and how they compare in number to those who don't? Just while we're on the topic of representation.

Venicelover · 15/10/2020 12:14

The issue here is how long the restrictions will last. We are very lucky, financially, we have not been impacted as a family, but many others are not so fortunate and with no definite end in sight many cannot live and pay their way on 2/3 wages.

However, one of my sons was diagnosed as positive this morning. He is a lawyer working from home oop north! He doesn't seem too bad at the moment, but only time will tell. Worrying times.

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 13:21

In terms of representation, Burnham won under the rules we have. That means he has a mandate and is fairly represented. If you want to get into a debate over how electoral reform thats a completely different subject and one for another day tbh. He is NOT the only locally elected official who is arguing for more money in Manchester. He is the most vocal and the one who is technically the most powerful but he's not the only one.

For me the issue is that GM NEEDS to go into T3. This is now something that pretty much everyone I know acknowledges and now feels they have hanging over their hands. But people still need/want to live and plan etc etc. Its starting to feel like restriction hokey cokey.

I know no one wants to live under draconian restrictions.

But

T2 also means no support at all for many, and whilst you have this hanging over people few people are going to make plans to do x, y and z anyway. Lots of local pubs are saying they would be better off in T3. Thats not the case for supply chains and yes thats an issue that needs to be addressed but equally the longer this goes on the longer they'd need to survive without support if none materialises.

It also affects people in GM and beyond. People are not staying in GM as lives do not begin and end at the boundaries. So plenty of people who aren't even eligible to vote are affected by decisions here. People who live on the borders also have a vested in this - be they commuters, shoppers, pub goers, family friends etc.

And yet we have this situation where everyone is in this limbo.

Hancock gave a speech this morning in parliament in which he stated that we couldn't afford a delay in putting in necessary measures. Before going on to say that he was in effect, delaying measures because he and Manchester were in dispute.

Hancock is ultimately top dog, so it doesn't matter what Burnham says. He could just overrule him. But the government don't want to do this for political reasons. Its better for the government to drive a wedge by going "look starmer supports a circuit breaker but burnham is being obstructive about restrictions".

Burnham realises that there is a massive financial problem in GM finances already. Having been in measures for several months and having to fund a local track and trace due to the failure of the national one there are black holes in budgets. The government had initially at the start of the pandemic they would provide all the financial support councils needed. Which turned out to be a pile of rot.

Going forward even more financial issues for GM are really a massive issue. The government doesn't care though, because these are Labour areas and they have form for defunding Labour areas and funding Conservative ones where they can. So Burnham is trying to draw attention and get what the area needs to prevent economic meltdown.

The trouble is he risks a situation reminiscent of miners being starved out of a strike but with hospitals and extended economic hardship.

Plus it will hurt surrounding conservative leaning counties too. So its massively devisive and plays into social tensions.

It also won't help compliance and enforcement in Liverpool.

So all this bullshit is hurting everyone because Hancock isn't showing leadership and Burnham is quite frankly, desparate.

Devlesko · 15/10/2020 13:26

Do you think this area is mainly labour?
My town kept labour, just. However, most others round us are Cons now.
I was mostly surprised by Leigh tbh, complete shock, that was.

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 13:31

Where is Warrington? Part56456463

www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/18796624.warrington-shown-tier-3-nhs-coronavirus-app/
Why Warrington is shown in tier 3 in NHS coronavirus app

At present, Warrington as a whole is a ‘tier two’ borough, which means that there is a high coronavirus risk and that some local lockdown restrictions are in place.

But residents in WA2, WA4 and WA5 postcodes have reported logging on to the NHS Covid-19 app and seeing that their area is now ‘tier three’ – very high risk.

“This applies to some people from postcodes including WA2, WA4 and WA5.

“The current status of the entire borough of Warrington is that the town is a ‘high risk’ area, and not a ‘very high risk’ area.

“Warrington postcodes bordering Merseyside and Halton, but which share postcode areas, may show a ‘very high risk’ level.”

Helpful.

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 13:35

@Devlesko

Do you think this area is mainly labour? My town kept labour, just. However, most others round us are Cons now. I was mostly surprised by Leigh tbh, complete shock, that was.
Greater Manchester has a Mayor. It has councils. And it has MPs. The majority are Labour.

But IT DOESN'T REALLY BLOODY MATTER AT THIS POINT. The problem of a big financial black hole isn't disappearing. And the problem of a delay impacting hospitals isn't going to change.

Just get the fuck on with it and sort out the problems rather than playing party fucking politics which the majority of people regardless of whether they voted or who they voted for are fucking sick to death over.

CrappleUmble · 15/10/2020 13:35

Greater Manchester is mainly Labour yeah, but there's certainly Conservative representation. At the last general election, the most recent data we have, Labour won 18 of the 27 seats in GM and the Tories 9. Not one of those MPs has come out in support of the way the government is handling things now. That's very telling. Note that of the 9 Tories, 5 are brand new MPs and 4 of those have majorities of under 500. They'll know the Boris factor is likely to have been what won them the constituency, back when he was actually popular, and they are not going to have wanted to stick their necks out if possible.

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 13:38

@CrappleUmble

Greater Manchester is mainly Labour yeah, but there's certainly Conservative representation. At the last general election, the most recent data we have, Labour won 18 of the 27 seats in GM and the Tories 9. Not one of those MPs has come out in support of the way the government is handling things now. That's very telling. Note that of the 9 Tories, 5 are brand new MPs and 4 of those have majorities of under 500. They'll know the Boris factor is likely to have been what won them the constituency, back when he was actually popular, and they are not going to have wanted to stick their necks out if possible.
Of the Conservative MPs in GM at least two don't think T3 restrictions should be imposed.

There reasoning might be different to Burnham's but they certainly are not happy bunnies.

CrappleUmble · 15/10/2020 13:41

I read either Jen Williams or Helen Pidd saying broadly, the Tory MPs were more opposed on ideological grounds and the Labour MPs on inadequate financial support grounds. Either way, they're all pissed off.

TokyoSushi · 15/10/2020 13:43

Well this is (unsurprisingly) a shambles. No mention whatsoever of Warrington but it's becoming pretty clear that GM are going to be put into T3 whether Andy Burnham likes it or not.

I'll just sit tight here and wait while the restrictions increase all around.

CrappleUmble · 15/10/2020 13:46

If I were a betting woman, I'd say the government lawyers are behind the scenes working out whether they think a legal challenge to Tier 3 restrictions from GM would stand up or not.

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2020 13:50

@TokyoSushi

Well this is (unsurprisingly) a shambles. No mention whatsoever of Warrington but it's becoming pretty clear that GM are going to be put into T3 whether Andy Burnham likes it or not.

I'll just sit tight here and wait while the restrictions increase all around.

Apparently the government have not been in touch with the council since Monday.

I think they have probably all forgotten Warrington isn't in Merseyside, Lancashire or G Manchester tbh.

Meanwhile the hospital is up shit creek and the council are planning patrols of the border areas and town centre this weekend (to keep the scousers out).

Fucking farce. The whole thing is a farce.

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