Is the North being thrown to the wolves?

[DilemmaDerby]

All those buying cities that were in growth Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds. A big red splotch over Yorkshire when parts are fine.

Not a theorist, total compliance at the beginning, but with the edicts of no non-essential travel in and out. It’s all going a bit Hunger Games for my liking!

Badbadbunny totally agree.

I personally think Andy Burnham & Labour have not done Manchester any favours.

From the start the Labour run areas, saw it as a chance to start posturing/giving it the big I am, against the government. The financial package wasn't enough even though everyone got the same. They were publically shaming the government at every turn & I believe this created an us and them attitude that has contributed to people not complying. I think Andy Burnham has his eyes set on jumping ship & running for PM in the future

This

I'm in the urban north and my area is on a very steep climb and a high per 100,000 infection rate.

What makes it worse is that the councils and mayors etc are not representative of what most everyday northerners think. They are only interested in political posturing and causing trouble for the govenrment. They are playing with people lives with this old north/south divide thing. These are middle class well paid councils who cant get over things like Thatcher and the minera strike. They are also bitter about the results of the last election. Pathetic

I personally think Andy Burnham & Labour have not done Manchester any favours.

To be fair, Lord's got Burnham by the balls so I don't think he's completely to blame, except for being a total fool.

@Flaxmeadow

I personally think Andy Burnham & Labour have not done Manchester any favours.

From the start the Labour run areas, saw it as a chance to start posturing/giving it the big I am, against the government. The financial package wasn't enough even though everyone got the same. They were publically shaming the government at every turn & I believe this created an us and them attitude that has contributed to people not complying. I think Andy Burnham has his eyes set on jumping ship & running for PM in the future

This

I'm in the urban north and my area is on a very steep climb and a high per 100,000 infection rate.

What makes it worse is that the councils and mayors etc are not representative of what most everyday northerners think. They are only interested in political posturing and causing trouble for the govenrment. They are playing with people lives with this old north/south divide thing. These are middle class well paid councils who cant get over things like Thatcher and the minera strike. They are also bitter about the results of the last election. Pathetic

Can you provide some evidence of what most everyday northerners think about our local politicians disagreeing with the government?

...having said the above, I don't mind Andy Burnham, who would have been a much better leader than Corbyn, or Anderson in Liverpool, who has come out and said he agrees with another lockdown.

But the problem in the north are the trouble causers, who are well paid public servants, out of touch with most northerners and who will go against whatever government suggest just to score points. They can't stop themselves banging the old drum of 30 years ago. They are the ones throwing us to the wolves

Can you provide some evidence of what most everyday northerners think about our local politicians disagreeing with the government?

The last election

@Flaxmeadow

Can you provide some evidence of what most everyday northerners think about our local politicians disagreeing with the government?

The last election

This could do with some clarification. You're suggesting that when the people of the north gave Labour a higher share of our votes and seats in the GE than any other party last year, they were doing so on the basis of local politicians relationships to central government?

CrappleUmble please feel free to find your own evidence. Andy is affectionately known in Manchester as Bandwagon Burnham for a reason. He jumps on whatever he thinks will raise his profile & make him look good.

I think his problem oriented finger pointing rather than opting to come up with a viable regional plan, shows he's more interested in promoting a strong labour front than offering or finding a solution.

Please Google Bandwagon Burham.

This could do with some clarification. You're suggesting that when the people of the north gave Labour a higher share of our votes and seats in the GE than any other party last year, they were doing so on the basis of local politicians relationships to central government?

Nonsense. Stop doing this crumble. Stop burying your head in the sand

Are you denying that the Labour party was thrashed in the north in the last election? That they were too middle class, too London centric, too ignoring the working class in favour of bonkers middle class led minority identity issues?

The Labour party need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and acknowledge what they have become and why they lost their traditional northern heartlands. Look at the state of them even now. Another posh London leader. Still out of touch with popular feeling

As much as I disagree with some of things Burnham says, he is a damn sight more realistic and in touch than Corbyn or Starmer.

Comply and get the case numbers down, the restrictions will ease

Hahahahahahahhahaha

@JammyDodgerz1

*CrappleUmble* please feel free to find your own evidence. Andy is affectionately known in Manchester as Bandwagon Burnham for a reason. He jumps on whatever he thinks will raise his profile & make him look good.

I think his problem oriented finger pointing rather than opting to come up with a viable regional plan, shows he's more interested in promoting a strong labour front than offering or finding a solution.

Please Google Bandwagon Burham.

Lmao no, that's not how it works. The person who makes a claim is the one who proves it. In any case, what I want to know is what the poster I asked considers to be evidence. Speaking as a Manc, I was rather hoping for something a bit more interesting than a nickname beloved of right-wingers. Recent polling, perhaps?

@Flaxmeadow

This could do with some clarification. You're suggesting that when the people of the north gave Labour a higher share of our votes and seats in the GE than any other party last year, they were doing so on the basis of local politicians relationships to central government?

Nonsense. Stop doing this crumble. Stop burying your head in the sand

Are you denying that the Labour party was thrashed in the north in the last election? That they were too middle class, too London centric, too ignoring the working class in favour of bonkers middle class led minority identity issues?

The Labour party need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and acknowledge what they have become and why they lost their traditional northern heartlands. Look at the state of them even now. Another posh London leader. Still out of touch with popular feeling

As much as I disagree with some of things Burnham says, he is a damn sight more realistic and in touch than Corbyn or Starmer.

Blimey, not this again. The Labour party having been the biggest party in the North in the last GE, both in vote share and seats won, is a fact. There isn't any argument to be had here, the numbers are not in dispute. For I think the third time in my response to you, I will link to actual stats:

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8749/

Page 26 onwards. I'm going to keep banging on about this until you have read and absorbed it.

If the franchise were held only by those of us in the north of England, we would currently have a Labour government. This is a fact. It's perfectly possible to argue that they fucked up in the north, pursued the wrong strategy, made all kinds of mistakes whilst also understanding that despite all that, they still remained the largest party here.

And the point you're making here still doesn't make sense. You're criticising Burnham and local leaders, fine. You think most people in the north don't agree with the approach during the pandemic, ok. And the evidence of this is Labour beating the Tories by some distance in a GE that predated the pandemic? That's... quite a leap.

If you don't have any actual proof and you were just generalising from your own anecdotal experiences, it's ok to say that.

Interesting that the WHO has now come out on the Barrington Declarations side and is anti lockdown.

How’s that for gaslighting fuckery?

Far right 🤣🤣 I am a BAME Muslim - nice try though.

@JammyDodgerz1

Far right 🤣🤣 I am a BAME Muslim - nice try though.

Could you tell us where far right was mentioned? I haven't seen anyone use that term in this thread, but perhaps I have missed it.

Here

There appears to be a mistake, as that screenshot doesn't use the term far-right. Either you have misread it, or you actually think all right wingers are far right. I hope it's the former: not a huge fan of the right myself, but it seems rather harsh to conflate anyone who's just a bit past the centre with the fascist lot! Moderate right-wingers would have every right to be offended by that view. Please do clarify.

I was replying to the suggestion Bandwagon Burham is a far right nickname for Andy, which in turn implies I am far right leaning in my views. When it's a commonly used nickname for Andy.

CrappleUmble apologies

@lovelemoncurd

It's going to cause racial unrest. Looking at Leeds CV data by area all the areas with low rates are poor white working class. Most areas with high rates are student areas or those areas with higher populations of BAME groups. I don't like where this could go!

What do you suggest? Should we ignore the figures if areas have more students or higher populations of BAME?

@JammyDodgerz1

*CrappleUmble* apologies

For your misreading? No worries, won't mention it again.

CrappleUmble thank you.

The north only jumped ship to the Cons because of Brexit and most wanting to leave, make no bones about it.
Also, those with a little knowledge (fatal) thought conservative better for them.
The rest was listening to propaganda about labour being anti semitic, when conservatives were outwardly racist to all ethnic minorities.

both mine and DHs families and our friends. All have been mixing households and some have had friends visiting from other areas of the country. MIL is unwell and in an at risk group but still visits her grandchildren twice a week who have been at school.

Great. Makes idiots of those of us following the rules and not seeing their families and puts us right where we are now, ie facing stronger measures.

@Devlesko

The north only jumped ship to the Cons because of Brexit and most wanting to leave, make no bones about it. Also, those with a little knowledge (fatal) thought conservative better for them. The rest was listening to propaganda about labour being anti semitic, when conservatives were outwardly racist to all ethnic minorities.

I think that this is the kind of comment and attitude that made people in the north jump towards the tories.