Worrying about 2nd national lockdown

[qwertyqwerty1]

I’m extremely worried that we’ll end up in a 2nd national lockdown and the 1st one has delayed my things enough, it’s done enough damage as it is. I was sick of it, everyday was the same boring crap bull. I’m trying to sort my life out and if this second one happens it’s going to ruin it for a 2nd time. I haven’t slept for a few nights because I have just been stressed and worried that they’ll be a second national lockdown. If you understood what I was going through then you would understand. 2020 is over nearly and the majority of the year we have had this lockdown. I mean it’s just one thing after another.

Definitely going to be local lockdowns, which again will be ignored by the majority of people. I know it’s hard for people focusing on how they’re going to manage being more or less confined to homes, but I think the biggest issue is the economy and the worry that people have about even having homes to at all after all this - reduced or no income means not being able to pay bills. I just wish people would stop being selfish and follow the rules to make sure we can exit this nightmare ASAP.

I cannot stand the scapegoating. It's always got to be the fault of a particular groups of people, which is always 'other' to the accuser. Horrid.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@Bowerbird5 I don't feel safe and it's not Covid that is making me feel that way. If I lose my job and home then my DS won't be safe. But who cares about poverty, job losses, depression, other health problems because nothing else matters but Covid, right? [/quote]
I completely agree with you.

@hopsalong

*And hang the consequences for those that suffer. * Interesting moral territory. How far should we go to alleviate others' suffering, and at what sacrifice to ourselves? To some extent this depends on the efficacy of our actions. We can stay at home, lose our jobs, become unhappier and poorer, and sacrifice our children's education. But how effective is it as a strategy? Somewhat effective. But not entirely so, because community transmission is not the only way for someone to get covid. And our own demands on the NHS are not reduced by staying in. If we become poorer and less fit, over the long run they will increase.

As ethical conundra, these questions are often phrased as visual scenes -- e.g. the trolley problem. And usually the consequences (eg of pulling a lever) are much clearer than here, where our actions may have little or no effect anyway. Do we have the same responsibility to people we don't know and will never see? If we do, why pre-pandemic were most of us content not to give most all of our income away?

More pressingly, why is the life of one (probably elderly) British person worth more to us than that of thousands of children in other parts of the world dying of hunger and easily curable illnesses? Why is it a better idea to socially distance to prevent the transmission of covid, than to go out to work, make as much money as possible, and give it to children in developing countries whose suffering we can alleviate with simple, tested and cheap interventions?

None of these questions is ethically easy. Anyone who pretends that there's one clear, morally right path isn't thinking hard enough.

Excellent post.

I'm absolutely baffled as to why people seem surprised that cases are increasing. I honestly thought it was inevitable that once people started mixing again, covid would spread again. Did people think it would disappear while we were all indoors or something?

Perhaps we should do what Thailand and South Africa did and ban alcohol for a few months. That'll learn them students.

We are in a terrible situation and whatever we do is going to cause suffering and hurt the economy. If the government hadn't stuffed up/delayed test and track we might not be in such a mess.

This winter is going to be tough, I think it will be the totally worst bit.

I don't celebrate Christmas, but I know it will be tough for those who do - we've already done the Jewish High Holy Days without extended family. But people will need to understand that it's not going to stop or slow down for Christmas, though I fear the tabloids will start mawkish 'Oh Boris, save Christmas!' headlines and the government will cave and do something stupid.

@nostaples - I agree the scapegoating of groups of people is wrong. It helps this incompetent, crappy government when we blame anyone except them! I know there's no good answers at a time like this and it's very hard for governments, but it seems this one has wasted so much time and money on the wrong things while the country burns.

@bibbitybobbitycats

Perhaps we should do what Thailand and South Africa did and ban alcohol for a few months. That'll learn them students.

We are in a terrible situation and whatever we do is going to cause suffering and hurt the economy. If the government hadn't stuffed up/delayed test and track we might not be in such a mess.

I don't know if you're serious or not but what a ridiculous idea, I don't think now is a good time for a government to treat its people like children even more than they already have.

@Waxonwaxoff0 couldn't agree with you more!!!!! I'm far more terrified of losing our jobs and our home - our children's home, than I am of the virus. Lots of people aren't putting any importance on anything other than Covid at the moment. There isn't a one size fits all solution to this, as everyone's current circumstances are different, we're all aware of the level of risk protection that applies to us personally, if we can act accordingly whilst respecting other peoples needs and helping out the vulnerable/shielding where possible then we can comfortably co-exist with the virus.

@FromEden

Even the WHO are now saying that lockdowns are not the answer and shouldn't be used as the primary means to control the virus because they dont work and only cause more problems

link

They are not the only answer. Changed behaviour is the answer. Which a minority of people are refusing to do and encouraging others to do the same.

Behaviour allows the virus to spread and that comes at a cost. To the functionality of the NHS and viability of the business.

The more virus, the more hospital admissions for acute illness, the more risk other NhS services will be cancelled. The less people who will use shops, bars and restaurants.

I feel the same as you OP. I am trying to figure out what's coming first, my baby in 3 weeks, or a lockdown. If the lockdown comes first, then I am facing a newborn, a 1 year old, and no family seeing or helping us. I had PND and psychosis the first time around. I went properly loopy. I honestly dont know how I will cope with a lockdown. I dont think I will in reality. I obeyed all the rules during the first lockdown, every single one. I dont think I can do it again.

@echobelly there will definitely be some sort of loosening of restrictions around Christmas, probably because the government knows millions of people will ignore the rules then anyway. It will be Huzzah-Boris Saves Christmas! followed by a very grim January.

@SqidgeBum

I feel the same as you OP. I am trying to figure out what's coming first, my baby in 3 weeks, or a lockdown. If the lockdown comes first, then I am facing a newborn, a 1 year old, and no family seeing or helping us. I had PND and psychosis the first time around. I went properly loopy. I honestly dont know how I will cope with a lockdown. I dont think I will in reality. I obeyed all the rules during the first lockdown, every single one. I dont think I can do it again.

Please don't do it again. Providing and receiving "care" whilst "vulnerable" is permitted under the law.

I would, in the strongest terms, urge that you allow yourself and your family to make use of that exemption - to the fullest extent, so that you are wrapped up and directly cared for by family. 💐💐💐

The problem is that everyone has an opinion on what should or should not happen, but the reality is that the only opinion that matters currently is the government’s. Whether people agree or disagree with masks or social distancing, the government will ultimately make the decisions, and unless we follow them there will be more stricter rules. We just have to fall in with rules whether we think they’re effective or not, because people rebelling against the rules are not helping atm.

@nostaples

I don't know why so many people are anti students on here. You realize that these people will be the nurses, doctors, teachers, scientists, researchers etc of tomorrow. And they are paying £9000 a year for tuition fees and the same again for accommodation. Not really sure what makes them 'little darlings' or similar. Most of them are absolutely following the rules but they are living in box rooms and sharing kitchens, bathrooms and communal areas. This is how the virus is spreading (evident because it's students in the same accommodation who are going down).

Most of them near me are not following the bloody rules. Pre them coming back, walking around town was blissful. Last week it was horrendous, groups of them everywhere, sprawled across the pavement, no regard for everyone else that lives there.

I'm so angry at the way students are behaving and I say that as a mother of a 3rd year student.

Unless someone needs personal care or is ill, there really is no need to actually visit someone in person

Yes there is. Its called being human. Sorry but wtf is wrong with some people. How dare you try to insinuate that people wanting to see their loved ones in person are being unreasonable. Shameful behaviour

Mumsnet is skewed with miserable anti social people who would be happy never seeing another human again. Some of us like spending time with people in real life.

Missing last year today, we spent 8k on a trip to USA for 10 days for the 3 of us last Christmas so glad we went bit before the world went crazy.
I feel like it's never ending just had enough of the covid talk, I don't think I can do another lock down my mental health won't cope.

@borntohula

I'm absolutely baffled as to why people seem surprised that cases are increasing. I honestly thought it was inevitable that once people started mixing again, covid would spread again. Did people think it would disappear while we were all indoors or something?

I'm pretty sure Johnson did. He's just a complete disaster.

At the end of the day, they aren't going to control it, they just need to say that to the public. It's obvious they can't.

@nostaples

I cannot stand the scapegoating. It's always got to be the fault of a particular groups of people, which is always 'other' to the accuser. Horrid.

In order to deal with a problem we have to identify what is causing it and also explain it. This is not scapegoating or blaming. In fact strenuous efforts are being made not to do this by the authorities.

It’s now ridiculous to say that some people are behaving recklessly and causing the virus to spread. That has consequences for us all. Pretending those consequences aren’t real is no longer tenable. Especially as a justification for behaving in a way we know causes spread and encouraging others to follow suit.

Personally, I don’t think the country can afford another national lockdown, the government won’t be able to dig us out of it. Already, after the first one there will be an estimated £2 million unemployed and businesses going bust.
Been told our jobs are at risk already and it was a shock as we thought our company was stable as we are essential workers...
If people don’t have work, they don’t spend money in shops or buy cars & houses so the government won’t risk it by shutting down the country again.
The main cities with high number of cases are university cities so local lockdowns will slow the spread and ease pressure on their hospitals.

hmm the students from university are taking the blame for the whole education system.
but education needs to carry on

Well, there are a lot of students partying and not wearing masks! My friend’s daughter caught it at a party in their hall’s communal kitchen and she’s really ashamed of herself now.
Said she was an idiot and feels poorly and wants her Mum but has to self isolate with others in the halls. 5 of them tested positive.
She said it will spread again though as everyone she knows at uni is out partying and thinks masks are a joke. So yeah, that’s why they are partly to blame!

I know people who have died, people over 60 but under 70 and who may have had existing conditions but would have lived for years to come if it hadn't been for Covid.

I agree that it's a balancing act, too many restrictions and economy collapses and suicide rates increase etc but without restrictions this thing will go wild. It's not strictly about Covid either.

If a significant amount of the population get Covid at once then that can collapse the economy and business as, mass amounts of people take sick leave at once.

As a country which is much more population dense than other countries we are at higher rates of transmission, so things could potentially become catastrophic very quickly. Those 99.whatever survival rates will very quickly reduce as there is greater demands for medical care.

These mild symptoms people keep describing at hardly mild. Many of the mild cases are suffering months later. It's mild as in they didn't need hospitalisation but not really mild as in they had a sniffle and just stayed in and watched Netflix all day for 48 hours. Although there are obvious exceptions to that rule too. however people I know who had it were really poorly and in their 30-50s and some even now say they are short of breath and really tired all the time.

But more than anything, unless your heartless enough to assume we just paint something on the door of Covid sufferers and leave them to their chances, is that hospitals will get over run with patients and the risk to staff increases. This all has a huge impact on the other services. If all staff are covering and dealing with Covid than the rest of us suffer even with non Covid issues.

Imagine the impact of A&Es started to have to close, even for short periods, cancer referrals stopped, chemo stopped, all surgeries stopped. You child falls off the sofa and breaks their arm but there is no A&E service through the night so they have to wait until morning in pain. Or has an uncontrolled asthma attack. The NHS could very quickly get overwhelmed by inpatients. The amount of staff absences is really high already due to the self isolation laws, it really could be catastrophic in weeks.

I was referred under the 2 week pathway for a consultation and a scan, the consultation will take 8 weeks and the scan 11 weeks, and that was only after complaining as I had been bleeding for 65 days and was fainting constantly.

The impact of a new disease is wider reaching their then disease itself. Most of us will be fine long term from the disease , but frankly I'd rather not take my chances and I don't want to even have this "mild" illness. I don't want to lose my 65 year old mum with severe health issues. I don't want her to become a statistic of this disease, she will likely survive for many more years yet, but if we decide to just think our ourselves than so many people will die. And the rate will be higher than 99%.

This disease has already killed significantly more than those from flu each year, and it's still in its infancy. I am no expert, I assume the disease is something we need to just learn to live with, but the slower we allow this disease to roll out the better. If we throw out arms up in the air and declare we all just take our chances like some scene from the hungry games than will lose a lot more people than from the disease itself. However if we can find that sweet spot where we limp along but still move forward and keep the disease on the back burner than we stand all stand a greater chance.

We should be celebrating the fact that the survival rate is so high rather than using it as an excuse to test out that statistic, it's so high because it's still very well controlled, NHS workers than pay attention and patients fully, but if the hospitals fill up then it would be impossible.

I hope I am wrong, I hope we don't get back to that state. I think it's been an absolutely horrific year and we all have suffered greatly in different ways. I think these restrictions will have a detrimental affect and I think our government have been shocking but I also believe we need to balance the rate of the transmission against everything else.

@Someonesayroadtrip

I know people who have died, people over 60 but under 70 and who may have had existing conditions but would have lived for years to come if it hadn't been for Covid.

I agree that it's a balancing act, too many restrictions and economy collapses and suicide rates increase etc but without restrictions this thing will go wild. It's not strictly about Covid either.

If a significant amount of the population get Covid at once then that can collapse the economy and business as, mass amounts of people take sick leave at once.

As a country which is much more population dense than other countries we are at higher rates of transmission, so things could potentially become catastrophic very quickly. Those 99.whatever survival rates will very quickly reduce as there is greater demands for medical care.

These mild symptoms people keep describing at hardly mild. Many of the mild cases are suffering months later. It's mild as in they didn't need hospitalisation but not really mild as in they had a sniffle and just stayed in and watched Netflix all day for 48 hours. Although there are obvious exceptions to that rule too. however people I know who had it were really poorly and in their 30-50s and some even now say they are short of breath and really tired all the time.

But more than anything, unless your heartless enough to assume we just paint something on the door of Covid sufferers and leave them to their chances, is that hospitals will get over run with patients and the risk to staff increases. This all has a huge impact on the other services. If all staff are covering and dealing with Covid than the rest of us suffer even with non Covid issues.

Imagine the impact of A&Es started to have to close, even for short periods, cancer referrals stopped, chemo stopped, all surgeries stopped. You child falls off the sofa and breaks their arm but there is no A&E service through the night so they have to wait until morning in pain. Or has an uncontrolled asthma attack. The NHS could very quickly get overwhelmed by inpatients. The amount of staff absences is really high already due to the self isolation laws, it really could be catastrophic in weeks.

I was referred under the 2 week pathway for a consultation and a scan, the consultation will take 8 weeks and the scan 11 weeks, and that was only after complaining as I had been bleeding for 65 days and was fainting constantly.

The impact of a new disease is wider reaching their then disease itself. Most of us will be fine long term from the disease , but frankly I'd rather not take my chances and I don't want to even have this "mild" illness. I don't want to lose my 65 year old mum with severe health issues. I don't want her to become a statistic of this disease, she will likely survive for many more years yet, but if we decide to just think our ourselves than so many people will die. And the rate will be higher than 99%.

This disease has already killed significantly more than those from flu each year, and it's still in its infancy. I am no expert, I assume the disease is something we need to just learn to live with, but the slower we allow this disease to roll out the better. If we throw out arms up in the air and declare we all just take our chances like some scene from the hungry games than will lose a lot more people than from the disease itself. However if we can find that sweet spot where we limp along but still move forward and keep the disease on the back burner than we stand all stand a greater chance.

We should be celebrating the fact that the survival rate is so high rather than using it as an excuse to test out that statistic, it's so high because it's still very well controlled, NHS workers than pay attention and patients fully, but if the hospitals fill up then it would be impossible.

I hope I am wrong, I hope we don't get back to that state. I think it's been an absolutely horrific year and we all have suffered greatly in different ways. I think these restrictions will have a detrimental affect and I think our government have been shocking but I also believe we need to balance the rate of the transmission against everything else.

Absolutely this. Very, very well said.