Are people oblivious to what’s happening in the North?

[Racoonworld]

I keep seeing posts where people are wondering why some people can’t see others, telling them that we’ve been able to meet family and friends for ages now. Do some people not realise that in large areas of the U.K. this isn’t allowed? And that next week it’s going to get worse? I don’t live in these areas but am horrified about what’s happening there and very aware that people are struggling with the isolation.

Young people blame old people for everything anyway, so no change there. I can’t buy a house - boomers fault, I can’t get a job, boomers fault (I mean how dare old Mavis get a job in B&Q when unemployment among young people is so high!)

Um... arent you generalising about an entire generation in the exact same manner that you’re criticising others for? I haven’t heard any young people blame older people for not being able to get a job, just a touch of stereotyping there eh?

A few weeks ago I was on a train in Manchester and I was the only one in the carriage wearing a mask, everyone laughing, talking loud, nit being careful with handrails, seating etc. No social distancing in shops, people in and out of each others houses, pubs rammed. No masks in hairdressers etc

We have to take some of the blame for this ourselves I think

This infuriates me. Why. Be. So. Stupid? And selfish. I'm in an area where it's low and everyone is in masks.

I'm in Greater Manchester. My son bought his house a year ago. He's a chef in a central Manchester pub. He was relieved when pubs opened again. A little concerned when closing time was set to 10pm as trade was just beginning to return. Now it looks like they may close completely again. He has a mortgage and bills, lives alone and is very worried as furlough ends this month with nothing to replace it. I too am very concerned about how he will cope.

I’m in the North (Cumbria) no restrictions yet, everyone seemingly compliant. I don’t know anyone who has had Covid (personally). Doesn’t seem rocket science to realise places that have a culture of mask wearing (Hong Kong for example) have very low rates. I’m not sure why some people have difficulty following this simple rule.

@Tomatoesneedtoripen

i have family who are planning to meet the rest of the family for the weekend in a cottage, despite knowing they mustnt mix households, they are doing it anyway! i guess they think they are special

Have they been following the rules otherwise? I’ve been WFH and getting shopping delivered and only going out for exercise. If my family did similar then why shouldn’t we mix households? No one else is getting “hurt” by this. They are getting “hurt” by stupid untenable rules that keep changing and fucking up everyones mental health and job prospects though. A grown ass adult should take responsibility for themselves. If they are an at risk Group then they should make their own risk assessment about whether or not they should do something. This virus isn’t going away, there is not likely to be a cure anytime soon. You cannot lock people down indefinitely and expect 100% compliance. Such actions have a way of making things worse. Unfortunately there will never be an acceptable solution to appease either extremes. Those stuck in the middle just need to get on with it, ensuring they take as much necessary precautions as they can.

@Russellbrandshair

Young people blame old people for everything anyway, so no change there. I can’t buy a house - boomers fault, I can’t get a job, boomers fault (I mean how dare old Mavis get a job in B&Q when unemployment among young people is so high!)

Um... arent you generalising about an entire generation in the exact same manner that you’re criticising others for? I haven’t heard any young people blame older people for not being able to get a job, just a touch of stereotyping there eh?

Absolutely I was stereotyping as I’m pissed of with people always blaming other generations for their wordly ills. Each generation does what is best for them at the time. You can’t not do something in case 50 years down the line little Johnny might feel hard done by.

We are way past the point of suppression or elimination, if that was ever realistically possible and I don‘t believe it was long term anyway. We have to work out how to live with the virus whilst allowing the NHS to continue with other treatments and balancing slowing the spread of covid aside the damage that any measures do to society and the economy. Blaming people for spreading a virus that is airborne is harmful and ridiculous. People need support and encouragement not vilification and huge fines. Even if we get a vaccine in the next year it apparently isn’t going to anyone under 50 so presumably they are expected to catch Covid at some point. Why not let it spread now among the young and healthy. According to Edinburgh university this will lower deaths among the older and ecv in the long term anyway.

Eye opening. Leicester not been mentioned in the news at all recently, especially with talk of spikes etc. I am.guessing that many,like myself, assumed Leicester came out of local restrictions ages ago. Shocked to hear this is not the case. Are your figures still rising? Are you being updated at all?

@SarahMused but the vulnerable will catch it from the rest of people.

Been worried about the north for a long time but what do you expect anyone else to do about it? Restrictions work if people follow them e.g. in Arizona they worked www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/10/8/21505713/coronavirus-arizona-covid-19-cdc-study?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=deseretnews&utm_campaign=facebookpage&fbclid=IwAR2QsS8wZN1Th5y1_8acjTNLo2wrxDKdFs3YL3kz64ferrBlH-nFGM-JaS8

I spend too much time here trying to stop the russian bots ( post recently on another thread) or the other bots spreading misinformation.

We cant afford another national lockdown. The north needs people paying taxes if it wants to go on having health care to help them deal with a mess they have got themselves into. Mixed messages from the government are not an excuse. People wanted their fun, now they will pay for it.

I'm in Leeds and so in local lockdown but clearly people have diffedent ideas about what that means and why wouldn't they? The guidance is so woolly. We can't go in people's houses or gardens as it's illegal but it's only advisable not to meet in pubs? So of course you see groups of 6 (or more) in pubs and cafes.

My kids are stuck in at weekends although there are groups of teenagers hanging around the parks, streets and in town. Clearly nobody is saying anything to them so why shouldn't mine meet with friends? They're not though.

However after saying all this, most people are wearing masks in shops and very few don't have them on when on public transport. The places we've been in are great with their Covid planning so some people are trying.

@OhTheRoses

We live close to and work in London. DC are 22 and 25 and back at uni. We still know only one person who has tested positively for Covid.

From 16.3 we worked from home and went to the supermarket weekly. DC totally complied. I think DH and I had a day trip to the coast in late May when it was allowed.

From mid June I went into my office twice a week. DH goes in when required.

In August we had 10 days in Cornwall - a week in a cottage and a few days in an hotel. Everywhere we went was hot on sd and masks.

DH is in his mother's bubble in Yorkshire so he can visit.

Took DC back to uni and had a cpl of hotel nights, went to a pub and a restaurant and everything was pristine and socially distanced.

Not seeing anyone in the south not conforming.

See this is the kind of attitude that’s upsetting us in the North. Are your telling me that every single person in the South is conforming to the rules? And you are therefore implying that none of us in the North are. It’s impossible for you to know either of these things. I’m sick to death of 1. Following enhanced rules when cases are low in my area. 2. Being accused of not following them. 3. Being told on multiple threads that because I’m in the north I’m lower class and stupid.

@RationalOne

Well reading the comments it sums up why there is a problem 'up North' and also in the largest populated areas in other parts of the country (Cardiff etc).

What do you mean, RationalOne? Are you implying that people in the North and Wales aren'f following the rules in place as well as people in the South (although obvs there are fewer rules there)? I don't think that's true.

I am in South Wales, most of which is now in local lockdown (it's not just Cardiff). Everyone around me is following the rules, compliance with mask wearing is high.

Cross post with LadyCatStark I think!

@Pippioddstocking

In the south here. Everyone wearing masks in shops, and on buses, social distancing where they can. Still cleaning down trollies before you touch them in the supermarket and dancing around each other in the isle to maintain a 2 m gap if possible. Nobody I know has had it. I haven't come across any rule breakers yet although of course, we have only a few rules at present.

Ditto. Brighton and Hove have spiked since the universities reopened. It’s a money-grabbing exercise, students pay for accommodation, if teaching is online, the students should be at home.

I have never come out of lockdown since March. I am waiting for surgery and it will be life changing for me so I stay isolated.

People don't seem to care about it any more. I have had to make four trips recently and am astonished at the way people are behaving.

According to Edinburgh university this will lower deaths among the older and ecv in the long term anyway.

Let's not this study is from Edinburgh university physics and astronomy department. Scientists in the field disagree.

And I've looked at the study and it makes two assumptions which are not correct.

1. Herd immunity is pretty much achieved in the first wave or
2. We lockdown for the first wave and make no attempt to do any measures for the second wave.

Also they've made the dubious assumption that having had covid-19 you're then immune for life. It also is working on the theory that no vaccine is produced.

Also for herd immunity to be effective you need at least 70% of people to have had it.
UK population is at 67 million.
70% of 67 million is 46.9 million.
Death rate from covid is normally estimated at being 3-4%.
3% of 46.9million is 1 407 000

The Guardian reported that of those who died in hospital from covid, 5% had no former health issues.
5% of 1 407 000 is 70 350.

That's 70k deaths of people like you and me, your dc, your friends. Do you still think that's a good idea?

Another report of mask wearing working in america "On average, the number of excess cases per 100,000 residents in states reopening without masks is ten times the number in states reopening with masks after 8 weeks (643.1 cases; 95% confidence interval (CI) = 406.9, 879.2 and 62.9 cases; CI = 12.6, 113.1, respectively). Excess cases after 6 weeks could have been reduced by 90% from 576,371 to 63,062 and excess deaths reduced by 80% from 22,851 to 4858 had states implemented mask mandates prior to reopening. Over 50,000 excess deaths were prevented within 6 weeks in 13 states that implemented mask mandates prior to reopening." link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06277-0

Anyone who says they are not going to follow the rules because other people arent doing so adds to the problem. Anyone who keeps quiet when their freinds and relatives are stupid adds to the problem. Anyone who suggests letting the young get it without acknowledging some of them will die and even children may get diabetes adds to the problem.

Two thirds of people in the uk live in households with someone over 45, where the risk starts increasing. The long term effects of Covid are unknown but pregnant women are more likely to get "long covid2, male fertility can be affected (no-one knows how long that will last yet), some young children seem to become type 1 diabetic.

Those who wish to "get on with life" are putting their fingers in their ears and singing la la because they cant cope with reality.

I find it hard enough to remember the rules for my area let alone remembering the ones for the north.
I'm aware that the north and other parts of the country have lockdowns, what that means in practical terms I'm not sure because it doesn't apply to me or my family or my friends yet.

I am in the the south west and I would not dare to go into a shop/ enclosed space without a mask.

I live in a local lockdown area, and tbh you wouldn’t know. People are just not following the rules at all. I’m not surprised the figures are increasing up here, as a lot of people are just doing as they please. I can’t see us ever getting back to normality.

I’m in South Wales too and response is varied. I used to be in London and guarantee response is varied there too, friends still in the area suggest large groups of teens (like S Wales) as well as general adults refusing masks based on their liberty being threatened. It’ll be similar everywhere.

I think some people are aware and others aren’t. It’s hard for some to keep up with everywhere in the U.K. My DM completely missed hearing about uni students in Scotland in pretty drastic lockdowns, but had seen those elsewhere having fun during isolation. She only knows the area near me is in local lockdown because of me telling her, I mean, south England don’t tend to cover a tiny village in Wales much on their news/announcements. I think unless someone regularly reads the news, and even then, it can be near nigh impossible to be aware of rules everywhere.

Lots of people say the young won’t forgive about covid, but unfortunately Brexit is also unforgivable once recognised for what it is. The young will no longer travel as easily, have poorer access to health care, probably not have as many EU students at uni, pay more for food etc etc. The covid blame will frustrate them, but a majority of young people didn’t vote to leave and are not going to be happy at the outcome. Sorry to mention it, but that will have a bigger impact that covid blame (although covid may add to that annoyance). I think the young are always annoyed with the old though, my generation got labelled the Peter Pan generation because we couldn’t afford to leave home in many case. It was down to the Gov and older generations, but we were made out as childish jobseekers who wanted travel and the bank of mum and dad. There are certainly people who aren’t impressed in my generation about that. No doubt, the mistakes of older generations and mainly the Gov will weigh heavily on the young in many ways upcoming.

Trump banned flights from China VERY early on and he was called a racist

Yeah, @Flaxmeadow, but he IS a racist. He called the virus the ‘Chinese virus’ and ‘Kung flu’, nothing to do with plane cancelling - all to do with actual racism.

The Conservative party certainly knew ' where the north was' last December when they wanted all their votes.
It'll be sad if they are letting them down now and not making it clear how to tackle this virus , or the people up there are feeling let down or ignored or just plain fed up.
The amount of people who tell me ' I don't trust the government over this' but they were happy to trust them to get ' Brexit done' .

Do some people not realise that in large areas of the U.K. this isn’t allowed? And that next week it’s going to get worse?

No, because as is apparent daily on MN, a huge number of people have no concept of the fact that their reality is not everyone else's reality.

Tomatoesneedtoripen Not if they are at university living with other students. People are going to catch it if they see another human. We can reduce the risk with mitigating measures like social distancing but that just means it spreads more slowly not that it doesn‘t spread at all. It‘s fine if we quickly get a working vaccine that is available to all but this seems unlikely for a while. People need to be able to decide for themselves what level of risk they are prepared to accept. For example we have our Dr daughter living with us. She has been working in a large general hospital throughout. She finally caught covid last week and inevitably we have got it too. I was prepared to take that calculated risk having looked at the statistics - late 50‘s, not over weight, no co-mordidities. If I was 90 I would be behaving differently of course.