Are people oblivious to what’s happening in the North?

[Racoonworld]

I keep seeing posts where people are wondering why some people can’t see others, telling them that we’ve been able to meet family and friends for ages now. Do some people not realise that in large areas of the U.K. this isn’t allowed? And that next week it’s going to get worse? I don’t live in these areas but am horrified about what’s happening there and very aware that people are struggling with the isolation.

I'm sick of the finger pointing and assumptions re compliance. Re geographies and demographics.

But more than that, should this continue, I just don't think young people will ever forgive the older generations

I wasn't meaning to point fingers, just wondering if different experiences of the first wave cause people to act differently. I imagine in many areas where Covid wasn't as bad as London and the South it may have felt like the lockdown and restrictions went overboard and perhaps that feeling has carried on among some?

There are people in all areas who don't comply and it doesn't help if you live in an area where there is confusion about restrictions. Here at the moment it's mainly wear a mask and don't have more than 6 in a group, which is fairly easy to understand (although not followed by all). Much more challenging if you are told not to mix households at all, including family. My friend can't see her Mum who lives across the road at her house but can go out to dinner in a restaurant with her.

I am not oblivious to what is happening in the North (I live in the South Coast), but I am a little non-plussed as to why infection rates are so much higher in the North and am happy to be educated

Off topic but there is another thread on why China is not seeing / reporting a second wave outbreak.

Reading some of the comments here, it's clear that there is such a big difference between public attitudes around personal responsibility for not spreading the virus vs. personal liberty to continue your life and daily activities as if the virus is just some terrible inconvenience.

I was reading an article earlier that said they think the increased cases in the North is partly due to lifting lockdown to early. London was bad first and they'd got cases down they but they hadn't really got cases down enough in the North.

I'm in Greater Manchester. My daughter has only been to school 2 days in the past 2 weeks. Confirmed case in her class. This week my DS teacher was confirmed positive but he was identified as a direct contact. He developed a cough this week - tested negative so allowed back to school. 2 more confirmed cases in another year group this week.

My DH is frontline staff. Antibody test showed he had it as have half his colleagues. Also have a friend with long Covid and know others who have had it too.

We live close to and work in London. DC are 22 and 25 and back at uni. We still know only one person who has tested positively for Covid.

From 16.3 we worked from home and went to the supermarket weekly. DC totally complied. I think DH and I had a day trip to the coast in late May when it was allowed.

From mid June I went into my office twice a week. DH goes in when required.

In August we had 10 days in Cornwall - a week in a cottage and a few days in an hotel. Everywhere we went was hot on sd and masks.

DH is in his mother's bubble in Yorkshire so he can visit.

Took DC back to uni and had a cpl of hotel nights, went to a pub and a restaurant and everything was pristine and socially distanced.

Not seeing anyone in the south not conforming.

I think people don’t think. I’m in local lockdown and I don’t socialise at all but family help with childcare so I am mixing households. Without this we literally couldn’t work, nor could the majority of the people I know. At least 50% of those at school pick ups are family, not parents. This is where cross contamination happens. But people are bringing it into the home from somewhere ie work or school but these won’t be locked down again so nothing will change. Can’t even begin on how they expect working parents with kids needing to isolate is supposed to work

@Paddybox I think China are lying through their teeth and I can’t even begin to imagine the realities there over the last year

The government has based its lockdown policy on what suits the South. When London was the epicentre of the pandemic there was no local lockdown to try to stop infection spreading north. When cases were low in the South but still really high in parts of the North like Bradford, the government lifted lockdown and spent public money subsidising people to eat out!

@Paddybox

Off topic but there is another thread on why China is not seeing / reporting a second wave outbreak.

Reading some of the comments here, it's clear that there is such a big difference between public attitudes around personal responsibility for not spreading the virus vs. personal liberty to continue your life and daily activities as if the virus is just some terrible inconvenience.

I am ashamed of and furious with people round here. Masks worn below noses and under chins or not at all, endless posting on social media about their rights or how the whole thing is a scam, general non-compliance with the regulations and, meanwhile, the figures climb. These people are the first to blame Boris, millionaires and everybody but themselves

I’m in the north, in an area with a high rate.

Everyone wears masks. Everyone I know is following the rules. I don’t know anyone with covid.

The North has been fucked over yet again because this country is completely London-centric. Back in March, when it was suggested there should be a London lockdown it was completely ruled out, we would never do that to just one part of the country, all in it together, blah blah blah. When cases went down in London, they lifted restrictions, but it was too early for the North. But who gives a fuck about that? It's only the North.

Infection levels didn't go down here as much as they were allowed to in the South, so we've had it bubbling along all summer.

I'm sick of smug southerners coming on here (in other threads, not seen it in this one yet), saying "we'll, we're sticking to the rules, you're obviously not". Most people here are sticking to the rules, if they can actually establish what they are, as they change day by day. We just don't have the advantage of having had the original lockdown tailor made to the region's needs like London did, and it's showing.

I live in the north. Not on lockdown yet but between areas which are so suspect we might be soon. As Scottish pubs close my DS is worried they will come over the border. He is working hard enough at the moment as trying to keep people in separate shifts so when they get word( happened twice so far) he can shut the pub, deep clean, pull that shift off and put a new team on while others self isolate and get tested.
The juggling to keep everyone safe is a bit of a nightmare and now shut at 10 means staff are earning less as lots are part time. He is worried for his staff as some are students and some have families to support.

We are shopping locally as much as possible to support the small businesses. We have to travel anyway as no shops here. I would say as a village people have pulled together more. We have a village website and a link through the church for another so anyone needing help can put out a request and so far lots of offers of help. So that seems to be working very well and other nearby villages have them too.

Some people obeying rules and others think it isn’t for them. Only two families here but more in the town from colleagues living there accounts.

@LimitisUp I think the North is affected for lots of reasons - several massive cities relatively close together (Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds for instance), lots of multi generation living, massive student population, densely populated... the list goes on.

Don't get me wrong there are people who are not sticking to the rules, either the rules are too confusing / illogical / people too selfish to conform - but that's the same everywhere. It's definitely (imo) due to more people disregarding the rules here than anywhere else.

@OhTher0oses we were also in Cornwall this summer. Not sure everywhere was hot on social distancing as you describe, restaurants etc were rammed and no chance that people were 2m apart in the water on busy surf days!

Whoa - typo - should say definitely not due to people disregarding the rules here more than anywhere else

Elizabeth a lot of influx to the Lakes didn’t help. The behaviour of some people was shocking. The disregard for locals and the parking so emergency vehicles couldn’t get through was dreadful. The rubbish left as well. How can people go to a beautiful area and then leave all there litter around? I don’t understand them. Villagers were filling black bags. It was on the local news and a walkers Facebook site that we are on.
There was a spike in Barrow linked to the southern Lakes.

@LilyPond2

The government has based its lockdown policy on what suits the South. When London was the epicentre of the pandemic there was no local lockdown to try to stop infection spreading north. When cases were low in the South but still really high in parts of the North like Bradford, the government lifted lockdown and spent public money subsidising people to eat out!

Not quite sure how failing to lockdown in time suited Londoners? It definitely didn't suit the 6500 Londoners who died. Nor their families.

I live in the North but aren't in local lockdown as yet. Lots of people here are wearing masks and I know a lot of people that are now WFH.

However, although I'm following the rules, it's not hard to see why others aren't. They change every day almost, some people are so confused. One minute being told to eat out and the next blamed for going to a restaurant.

My teen dd doesn't go out much and when she does she stays in the rule of 6, goes to eat out etc but her friends are still meeting as normal. There's a big teen hangout close to our house and everyone knows about it and has always complained about the teens being there. According to dd, there are huge groups and no SD. How many police do you think they've seen. Yes you're right. None. There's just no enforcement so why bother following the rules as they obviously aren't bothered.

Yeah the government really thought of Londoners when (after the situation in China was clear) they continued to allow daily unrestricted direct flights from Wuhan into London. Real protection that was.

People might be interested to know that cases are rapidly rising again in London.
It's already ahead of the Midlands.
That's even with the testing cockup, i.e. no test = no official case. The bizarre reporting a very interlinked city's figures as individual boroughs also deceptively made cases seem lower.

Watch this space. By this time next month (possibly sooner), London will be hit bad again. Perhaps, like last time, worse than anywhere else. That's because, unlike Dr of the north, it hasn't been put under extra restrictions. If it was, the deja vu wouldn't be happening.

What I don't get is why some people, the media included, seem to think the whole of the north is included in the preventative measures. Only parts of the north east has been. It's ridiculous. Places like Stockton or Redcar and Cleveland are right next door to Middlesbrough and Hartlepool. Hartlepool's hospital has had to cancel elective surgery because of Covid pressures. People live and work across Teeside yet only some of it is under restrictions.

We really need a coherent nationwide approach. It's no good waiting until an area gets hit badly. We need to be proactive and preventative.

Yeah the government really thought of Londoners when (after the situation in China was clear) they continued to allow daily unrestricted direct flights from Wuhan into London. Real protection that was.

What would people have said if they had banned flights? Whined about that too I expect

Trump banned flights from China VERY early on and he was called a racist

People might be interested to know that cases are rapidly rising again in London.
It's already ahead of the Midlands.

London is nowhere near what the midlands is experiencing. Nottingham, the highest in the country today, has an infection rate of 689 per 100,000. That's really fucking high, far higher than anywhere in London, or the north for that matter

That's even with the testing cockup, i.e. no test = no official case.

Eh? The rates are worked out per capita, per 100,000.

The bizarre reporting a very interlinked city's figures as individual boroughs also deceptively made cases seem lower.

Because per capita

It doesnt matter whether somewhere has 100 people in an area, 100,000 or a million. The infection rate is worked out by percent

Watch this space. By this time next month (possibly sooner), London will be hit bad again. Perhaps, like last time, worse than anywhere else.

It wasn't hit worse than anywhere else

That's because, unlike Dr of the north, it hasn't been put under extra restrictions. If it was, the deja vu wouldn't be happening

The north was put under restrictions because cases were rising. It was nothing to do with London.

@LimitIsUp

I am not oblivious to what is happening in the North (I live in the South Coast), but I am a little non-plussed as to why infection rates are so much higher in the North and am happy to be educated

Were you equally non plussed as to why infection rates were so much higher in London in March when the entire country was locked down ? People didn’t seem to be requesting much education at that stage but seemingly accepted that this was a national/global issue that needed to be dealt with as such but as soon as infection rates are higher in the North people are questioning what the North is doing wrong . Presumably if rates subsequently rise again in the South (and I truly hope this doesn’t happen) the ‘North’ will no doubt get the blame for transmission to the South.

Bloody hell. Some people seem quite keen to try to play places off against each other!

That's another problem with all this different rules for different regions nonsense.

Covid doesn't respect borders - particularly not land ones.

We need a coherent national approach.

@Flaxmeadow
I never said the restrictions in selected parts of the north were anything to do with London. I was pointing out that, contrary to some people's bizarre notions, the government is certainly not protecting London. Nor is it being put first.

Ask London's mayor, Sadiq Khan, what he thinks. He's been begging the government to take action in London. He wanted measures to be in place this time before it's too late.

It's like with some of the NE, Teeside for example. Only part of it is under restrictions.

Covid doesn't care if it crosses into the next town particularly when it's just a matter of a few streets.

@Ihatemyseleffordoingthis

I'm sick of the finger pointing and assumptions re compliance. Re geographies and demographics.

But more than that, should this continue, I just don't think young people will ever forgive the older generations

This. The constant accusations are starting to grate. I've seen lots of people on social media stating that the North voted tory (I did not) so have no common sense implying that they somehow deserve the influx in cases. I've also seen lots of people implying that people in the North don't have jobs to worry about bc of course we're all obviously on benefits. Not to mention the thousands of other accusations flung on to any demographic that isn't the majority. I can tell you now as someone who lives in a local lockdown area, everyone I've seen breaking rules has nothing in common with each other regarding age, race or gender. It's not one particular demographic it's a whole load of demographics all mixed together.

@mightyducks Andy Burnham really drove the point home re Bolton hospitality on Question time tonight