Why is China not seeing an increase in cases?

[ProseccoSupernova]

Or are they not just recording it?

Lang that is very interesting and finally clears up that issue for me. I had always wondered why it would be the case but what you say makes sense. I appreciate the insight as have pondered why since early on.

I’m not in that overlap though and do think we should have followed the 23 Jan advice.

I never really understood the WHO logic on anything but if they just follow a set of rules I suppose that explains lack of logic.

As for timing of the virus there was evidence emerging of earlier occurrences of the virus in Europe:
A case in Paris off the top of my head.

I don't see any connection between the two issues tbh.

I just love the idea that China was supposed to be completely au fait and know everything about a novel virus as soon as it appeared. Everyone else can stumble around, banging into things and going, 'duuuuurrrrrr' but it's still China's fault.

If I stub my toe on something you left accidentally on the floor, that's on you. Bad you. If I get an infection from that which I don't treat and end up losing my leg to gangrene, that's on me.

And we had BSE and AFTER THAT were selling horse meat. We've hardly learned about food hygiene but a majority world country has to do everything right?

More people should travel in China. I have and it's incredibly interesting. Cities with insane wealth (every car is a Merc.) and very very modern and up to date. Then in the countryside, very very underdeveloped. Open sewer toilets and food shops you'd see in your nightmares. It's not as simple as 'they could sort it out if they wanted'.

never really understood the WHO logic on anything but if they just follow a set of rules I suppose that explains lack of logic.

Of course that's not all they do. Don't be so silly. However they are bound by international law. Do you think it would be a good idea if they were not? Good luck getting any country to report a disease outbreak ever again.

I don't see any connection between the two issues tbh.

What would be the point of closing borders in January if the virus has been widespread around the world since last autumn? You are heaping blame on WHO for failing to shut the door after the horse has bolted when they had no lawful means of doing this anyway.

I put it down to doing what they have to do to stop it, there is no way countries like the UK, US etc. would allow it because the people would not go along with it, everything would close and no would go anywhere, basically

Think of the complaining on here (MN in general) for example about 'why is this allowed and this not' and individual rights are more important than actually getting rid of it overall

@CountFosco

You don't need unsanitary markets to spread disease, anywhere humans and animals are in close quarters (i.e. every farm or any household with pets or animals kept for food) provides an opportunity for disease to spread from animals to humans. That can be beneficial (cow pox), relatively harmless (ringworm) or deadly (see above).

It is racist to suggest the Chinese are somehow doing something wrong and dirty that does not happen elsewhere and they are not uniquely likely to have a disease start there.

+++++

Firstly and to be very clear it NOT racist to suggest the Chinese Government somehow did something wrong in its handling in the start of the covid outbreak.

Secondly whilst China is not unique in being the starting point of new diseases for example MERS originated in the Middle East, the fact remains that of the last 5 major flu virus outbreaks in the last 70 years 4 originated in China (1953, 1968, SARS and Covid).

Thirdly to suggest that risk of new zoonotic diseases developing is the same from me stroking Fido the dog on the sofa as it is from chopping up live Pangolins, live poultry, live bats and Civet cats in the same unsanitary environment is either naive or idiotic. Indeed since the late 70s live poultry markets were known to be a source of influenza viruses.

Finally whilst I certainly do not believe in the conspiracy theory that Covid was deliberately started by the Chinese Government it remains a fact that China does stand to benefit from the social instability and economic downturn in the West caused by Covid. Remember the Cold War was won by the West not on a battlefield but through economic power.

China is a developing country with more than 1 billion residents. Most of them are still quite poor and undereducated unless they’re in the top cities. The idea that they should have European hygiene and food safety standards and that it should be widespread is laughable. Where would the money come from? Their GDP per capita is 20% of the UK’s.

They have problems no doubt but with that many people and the speed of urbanisation meaning animals and humans are interacting in the zones between cities and rural areas, of course they will be the source of many zoonotic diseases.

@1dayatatime well said

Secondly whilst China is not unique in being the starting point of new diseases for example MERS originated in the Middle East, the fact remains that of the last 5 major flu virus outbreaks in the last 70 years 4 originated in China (1953, 1968, SARS and Covid).

Well two of those are coronaviruses not influenza. Going through the modern flu pandemics 1890 was from Russia, 1918 probably the US, 1953 and 1968 from China, 2008 from Mexico.

HIV started somewhere in Africa about 100 years ago
You learn something every day.

Thought to have been in the Congo in the 1920s.

Just had a look at earliest mention on here out of interest. One insightful poster asked:

There are 3 direct flights per week from Wuhan to London, it only seems like a matter of time shock
Shouldn’t these flights be temporarily suspended?

Yanbu poll supported that by 3/4. That was 21 Jan so we were thinking about issue with travel at least

It’s quite interesting, some replies say you’re crazy to worry in U.K. it’s not going to do much there etc

I have been following the information as it has come into the public domain.

The information on possible earlier spread has come out subsequently.

I'm interested in what had gone on. And making sense of it.

Seems a pointless conversation so farewell.

Agree. The uk was slow to act. Australia stopped entry from China on 1st Feb, the only exceptions being Australian citizens and those with permanent residency who had to then self isolate at home for 14 days

We had Covid here in December at least.
I know more people who had all the symptoms in December and were ill with what would now probably test positive for Covid than I know people who have had it since.

Closing the borders even on 1st February wouldn’t have stopped the virus getting in, it was already rampant in and around London.

Just no one was testing for it and I think the spike in deaths was really seen as London I would think has a younger population than other areas in the country.

Sorry should have been

Wasn’t really seen as London I would think has a younger population than other areas in the country.

What a truly depressing and xenophobic thread (by not all I add)

Has anyone that keeps repeating this bollocks that China must be lying ever actually been there? They live in a completely different world than we do. Their Government, although harsh, have their shit together, and they've dealt with so many pandemics, of course they're going to be better equipped to deal with this. Also, they locked down hard, enough to bring cases down to the point a viable Test, Track and Trace system would work. Its that simple. They're streets ahead on this kind of thing

China must be lying ever actually been there? They live in a completely different world than we do. Their Government, although harsh, have their shit together, and they've dealt with so many pandemics, of course they're going to be better equipped to deal with this

I think what people are asking is why have they had to deal with so many pandemics?

Wouldn’t it be better for them to stop the cause of the pandemics rather than spending the money on trying to sweep things under the carpet or cleaning up the mess these pandemics cause. Building brand new hospitals in days etc

If as a ShanghaiDiva in pp has said that the Chinese are compliant with what their government state then enforcing better hygiene practices etc should be so easy.

Or does it suit the Chinese government to have these pandemics?

@ShanghaiDiva borders are now open to foreigners with current residence visas - no need to apply for a further one apparently.

As a teacher in Shanghai we are currently unable to leave the city and return (to school) without first quarantining for 2 weeks, however things are becoming more relaxed all the time and we are expecting that to be lifted soon.

Yes, China is an authoritarian state, however quarantine experiences aside, it isn't something that really affects your daily life. There are bureaucratic procedures you need to follow, and you need to mind what you say on WeChat (equivalent of Whatsapp) but you can live a good life here, and (traffic/pollution aside) it is very safe for your children. I've never seen any anti-social behaviour at all (apart from the cultural spitting habit). Inequality is visibly far higher than in the UK but there is no, or at least very low, street crime - I have never seen a gang or a group of people who look remotely intimidating or felt anything other than perfectly safe on the streets at night.

I think what people are asking is why have they had to deal with so many pandemics?

That isnt what many people have said. Many have said that China are lying and covering up whats really happening. What a crock of shit honestly

So Lollipity are you saying that China is a bureaucratic, sexist and polluted country with a paranoid government who only want to be seen in a good light but if you can get over those things it is great country.

I think I still want to live in the UK.

@olivermumsarmy Not sure I mentioned sexist anywhere, and the air pollution is a problem, like many countries round here. UK air is something I definitely took for granted.

Teaching out here is genuinely less stressful (I did over a decade in UK comps) - workload was ridiculous in the UK (and yes, I know lots of people have difficult jobs...), but here you can be relatively well-paid and not have to work every evening and weekend. Behaviour is better here too.

I found China a good deal less sexist than Europe.

I’m in China now. Arrived a couple of months ago, and in the process of entering the country my family and I had three COVID tests, two weeks of total quarantine (no leaving the house at all) and transport crews with full hazmat gear. So they’re taking it seriously. There are a few new cases (Qingdao is currently testing several million people after I think six cases were identfiied) so it’s not completely finished but the controls are extremely tight and the reactions extreme. We can travel and live fairly normal lives but there are definitely restrictions - the kids wear masks all day at school and have to test temperatures several times a day, you need to show a health app to enter shops and restaurants etc. Oh and they’ve started to vaccinate people, many senior officials have had a vaccine and chinese students going overseas are now being encouraged to apply for a jab (approved for emergency use and still in phase three trials). It certainly shows up the difference in levels of state control and public compliance, but also the collective versus individual approaches. Chinese society has traditionally focused on putting the group before the individual (with consequences for human rights) and I think that’s part of the explanation.

@lovelylimesoda wow! I wish we had managed all that over here. Fair play to China, they just got on with it.

China did what needed to be done and didn't indulge the lazy, negative, whiners.