What should be put in place for shielders if we go down lock vulnerable down and carry on

[Someonetakemebackto91]

We are a shielding family ( DD 7 ) is the vulnerable one.

I see more and more people are moving over to the idea it’s better to protect the vulnerable and allow the others to go back to semi normal and carry on until vaccine or herd immunity or whatever people think the outcome will be.

If this was even an idea there will have to be more support than a box of fruit delivered on a Monday.
If everyone can else can carry on as usual there should be

• job protection ( on the same level as non shielders, so basically can be use against them in the work place )

• full wage coverage

• for parent carers an increase in carers allowance. ( loss of respite as-well as increase in bills ) shielders only.

Seperate hospitals
Open the nightingale hospitals etc and use these got covid patients and have hospitals for the shielders to attend safety for medical treatment including transport.

• education for kids in shielding households needs to match full time education.

Thoughts ? What do you think they should do for shielders if they decide yo go down this route !

My husband is extremely clinically vulnerable and since shielding was lifted at the beginning of August, it has been so difficult and nerve wracking. Because it was lifted it is like others assume his lung disease was magically cured and life must get back to normal....even supermarkets deliveries are not really socially distancing on the doorstep. And work and schools that are extra difficult for the ex-shielders to negotiate safely. It has been so hard to stay safe and so I hope for "something" in the coming days, even if I was unsure as to that that "something" should be. It would be wonderful if even one of your thoughts would happen.

Well this is the thing if people want it to be only the vulnerable under restrictions then there needs to be a sold plan. All the worries others have
Mental health
Finances etc
Are relevant to shielders to although someone people seem to think they must be immune to that 🤣

Shops having dedicated times for shielders only.
Return of the Borisbox but with far better food - it was all white carbs, hardly any fresh fruit and veg (and what there was was often mouldy and it was very poor for vegetarians
Financial support with no questions asked - higher heating bills etc must be covered, and also some kind of incentive to stay at home. Maybe immediate access to state pension if people are within 5 or 10 years of that age, but actually payments of minimum of national average wage would be more sensible.
Instant and exclusive access to health care, including but not exclusively mental health support services.
A regular time when shielded people can exercise outdoors without meeting anyone else (ie, everyone else has to stay in for a few hours)
Some kind of exemption to meeting family (don't know how this might work)

I’m one of those wanting this plan. I would suggest:

• Furlough for shielders at 80% pay with cap to match what was in place before
• job protection if placed on Furlough for shielding
• online school for shielding children, run by shielding teachers
• special exam room provision for shielders so students don’t mix with non-shielders
• laptops given to children without
• keep food delivery slot priority

Only for those on the ECV group with NHS letter and for a defined period of time I.e. 6 months. If there is no vaccine by next spring we will all have to live with it, we cannot continue to pay forever.

Oh and free holidays in posh hotels (in the UK!) which are kept separate for shielders.

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it is interesting to me that there has always been a group of people in society who through bad luck and no fault of their own have had to massively curtail their lives, lost their jobs, had children out of school etc - those who have a particular disability or a severely disabled child for instance. Plenty of children with SEN have no suitable school place for years. Yet suddenly if it is covid causing the misfortune then people think they should be entirely protected, have jobs and incomes saved, special hospitals etc. It’s a bit like people who think benefits are much too low only now that they are suddenly facing being in universal credit. Are you advocating this level of welfare provision and bespoke services like education and hospitals for everyone’s particular needs?

@FuzzyPuffling

Oh and free holidays in posh hotels (in the UK!) which are kept separate for shielders.

I hope this one is a joke!

And what would happen with the people who live with shielders?

After all if they are out and about, at work at school...won't they be risking bringing Covid back to the shielded?

@Triangularbubble

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it is interesting to me that there has always been a group of people in society who through bad luck and no fault of their own have had to massively curtail their lives, lost their jobs, had children out of school etc - those who have a particular disability or a severely disabled child for instance. Plenty of children with SEN have no suitable school place for years. Yet suddenly if it is covid causing the misfortune then people think they should be entirely protected, have jobs and incomes saved, special hospitals etc. It’s a bit like people who think benefits are much too low only now that they are suddenly facing being in universal credit. Are you advocating this level of welfare provision and bespoke services like education and hospitals for everyone’s particular needs?

Here here.

My son had no education for 2 years. Nothing at all. No one cared.
My partner had to give up his full time teaching job to look after him as no one else could. No income protection, no job protection. Career over.
We can't go to anything mainstream as it's too busy, too loud etc - no one segregates to allow my son access to the things he enjoys, he just doesn't get to do them. No one cares.
We get a few hundred a month in Carers allowance and DLA - doesn't cover the 45K salary we've lost and years of education we will never get back.

I don't disagree with the sentiment either just that its interesting that it's only now people can see how hard our lives have been.

Oh and, who would be shielded?
Have the Barrington/focused protection funsters actually specified who is considered 'the vulnerable'?

There needs to be much greater thought and provision for declining mental health of those who are locked up at home. Not just a few practical things.

I hope this one is a joke! Why? If you'd not left your house for the best part of a year, don't you think a safe holiday might help you feel considerably better?

@FuzzyPuffling what about those who can no longer afford a holiday as they’ve lost their job because of lockdown, or a large chunk of income? What about those who have never been able to afford a holiday? What about those who suffer long term illnesses who are vulnerable to other illnesses so haven’t had a holiday for years? I’m vulnerable not not ECV, have a new baby so also won’t have had a holiday this year. Free holidays for everyone?? No this isn’t a priority.

@Racoonworld

I’m one of those wanting this plan. I would suggest:

• Furlough for shielders at 80% pay with cap to match what was in place before
• job protection if placed on Furlough for shielding
• online school for shielding children, run by shielding teachers
• special exam room provision for shielders so students don’t mix with non-shielders
• laptops given to children without
• keep food delivery slot priority

Only for those on the ECV group with NHS letter and for a defined period of time I.e. 6 months. If there is no vaccine by next spring we will all have to live with it, we cannot continue to pay forever.

Doesn’t work like that I’m afraid. Realisticslly, if you want to keep everything running and not have too many covid patients in hospitals you need to extend the shielding group not restrict it. If you don’t do that the entire plan will fall flat on its face.

Priority for mental health services. Those who are shielding are likely to be in greater need.

raccoonworld we're talking about what would make shielding more bearable here, not your (or my) personal circumstances.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay I would hope the shielding list would be updated to take off the people not at so much risk and include the people more at risk now there is more information. But it really doesn’t need to include lots of the vulnerable group, for example I’m in the vulnerable group but my risk is actually pretty low as I’m under 40 so wouldn’t expect to be included.

@FuzzyPuffling the question was what should be put in place for shielders. I don’t think free holidays should be put in place for the reasons I said. Nothing to do with what would make it more bearable, if that was the question I would add a whole load more things but none would be practical, financially viable or fair to the rest of the population.

Shops having dedicated times for shielders only

?? I thought the whole point of shielding was that you went out for essential,medical appointments only.

No dialy exercise, no trips to the shops.

Priory online shopping is a must. Plus a shopping service for those who are not online.

Definitely priority for mental health services, it's a huge and terrible thing to ask of people. Hard enough in lockdown, when others also had a level of restriction. But being shut away so that others can live normally is oppressive in the extreme and needs considerable support.

All clubs/activities etc which went online, need to continue online (even if RL versions resume). Cut them off from as little as possible.

And solve the issue of education for shielded DC, and DC where an immediate family member is shielding. right from nursery to A levels.

But shutting people away for months on end, denying them the right to take part in society is not fair either. This virus is unfair, getting cancer is unfair, having to give up work to look after a family member... it's all unfair. Let's just do the absolute best we can, not argue about a race to the bottom.

The shops thing is because there were, and still are, limits on the number of things you can buy at one time. And some things aren't available online, or not without huge delivery charges. (. Thinking plants and potting compost here!). Free delivery perhaps?

Also, combined online/ offline groups can be counterproductive and have the effect of increasing the feeling of othering. When everything is online it's ok... we're all in the same position, but when all you can do is watch other people behaving "normally", as when live classes/ groups are streamed, it's really damaging.

@FuzzyPuffling I do agree that being shut away for months will be awful and there needs to be some things in place, but they do need to be reasonable and achievable. Paying for a holiday for shielders would just annoy the general population as it wouldn’t be seen as fair. Perhaps a one off payment per household member at the end of the 6 months? Would give an incentive to shield as well as being able to spend it on something nice at the end (a holiday if that’s what people want!).

And if you cannot get out for daily exercise, you become even less fit, and less able to withstand either covid or whatever your underlying condition is. And we know the risks of obesity on everything.

Society should ensure you have access to potting compost without having to pay for delivery? Don’t be absurd. I’m still not seeing how having to shield because you are at risk of a virus is all that different to any other life changing and awful medical event or disability? I’d rather see better welfare provision, respite care etc for everyone on the margins of being able to access society (many of whom have lived like the shielded for years without anyone really noticing or providing much support) than a very select group get free holidays and compost.

The difference here is that the policy is to shunt these people out of society so that everyone else can crack on.

It's not the same as being incapacitated. You can be fully healthy and active (just kept that way by heavy duty drugs)

And any one of us is just a diagnosis or accident away from being prt of that group.

If we are choosing to exclude people from society, because the majority wants to run society in a way which is no longer compatible with their presence, we need to face up to that being a choice, not an act of fate.

• Blocks of subsidised flats available for those living with others to enable the rest of the household to continue to work and go to school etc
• Encouraging employers to allow those able to work from home to do so

-ESA available to those not able to work from home and some level of priority access to temporary public sector working from home jobs where qualified -Remove all children from the shielding list as the evidence no longer supports shielding children whatever their condition -Priority food deliveries including by the government if necessary (chargeable at cost to government) -Tie entitlement to benefits to agreement to follow shielding guidance where appropriate (including state pension, ESA etc)